What is PA law concerning self defense in your home?

[Last Resort]

ETA: I just want to hit on retreat, so you don't end up getting yourself killed by having a weak understanding of the retreat claus

Not really. Since the claus says you must retreat only when you can do so in complete safety, retreating is rarely an option. I think you don't understand what it really means. COMPLETE safety means you can escape the situation completely unharmed, and safe. With almost no fear for your life or bodily injury.

If someone attempts to mug you on the street, can you out run bullets? How can you retreat in COMLPETE safety? The very fact that the assailant has a gun, means your option for a completely safe retreat has been forcibly removed.

Likewise with a knife or melee weapon, are you 200% sure you can out run the attacker who has a blood lust and is possibly on a power house drug like cocaine or pcp? Generally speaking, most criminals are in better shape then the people they target, so expect 90% of the time, they can out run you at the very least. Predators usually pick the weakest prey they can find, because it yields easy kills. Not to say that you are weak, but in this predators mind he's about to destroy you, that is the criminals mentality.

Are you really going to retreat from lamp post to lamp post? When you say retreat continuously I kind of laugh as I get this funny image of a warner bro's cartoon.

Could you explain what you meant?

Thanks for presenting that food for though. I had never really thought about what "retreat" really meant. With scenarios like that in mind, it makes me reconsider when I would be required to "retreat".

[Fraggle09027]

ETA: I just want to hit on retreat, so you don't end up getting yourself killed by having a weak understanding of the retreat claus

Not really. Since the claus says you must retreat only when you can do so in complete safety, retreating is rarely an option. I think you don't understand what it really means. COMPLETE safety means you can escape the situation completely unharmed, and safe. With almost no fear for your life or bodily injury.

If someone attempts to mug you on the street, can you out run bullets? How can you retreat in COMLPETE safety? The very fact that the assailant has a gun, means your option for a completely safe retreat has been forcibly removed.

Likewise with a knife or melee weapon, are you 200% sure you can out run the attacker who has a blood lust and is possibly on a power house drug like cocaine or pcp? Generally speaking, most criminals are in better shape then the people they target, so expect 90% of the time, they can out run you at the very least. Predators usually pick the weakest prey they can find, because it yields easy kills. Not to say that you are weak, but in this predators mind he's about to destroy you, that is the criminals mentality.

Are you really going to retreat from lamp post to lamp post? When you say retreat continuously I kind of laugh as I get this funny image of a warner bro's cartoon.

Could you explain what you meant?

I agree with you completely. To bring up a question in this old thread, is there even a case where a shooting was ruled non-justified due to failure to retreat?

[applegate77]

Can someone explain to me what type of force is justified if a person comes into your home uninvited with the intent of bodily injury? What if they are trying to assault you inside your home when children are present? I had an issue with someone I hadn't seen in years that came to my house looking for a fight & attempted to push & kick their way in when I tried to shut the door. The reason they wanted to fight was because I had asked them in a private text message to please stop talking about me to other people. I was polite & non-confrontational. Does that still mean I was the "aggressor"? I was successful in this situation, but I'd like to know the law in case this ever happens again.

[Kyle H]

I too have another question. If any intruder were to come through your door does this represent a possible fear for life? The place I live has hollow core doors so it wouldnt take much to get through them, but I always keep them locked. If someone started hacking their way through the door would I be justified in shooting through the door if sight of the perp wasnt able to be had?

[IronButt]

I too have another question. If any intruder were to come through your door does this represent a possible fear for life? The place I live has hollow core doors so it wouldnt take much to get through them, but I always keep them locked. If someone started hacking their way through the door would I be justified in shooting through the door if sight of the perp wasnt able to be had?

First of all, you must always be sure of your target. That isn't the case in your scenario.

Second, if someone is "hacking their way through the door", you can rest assured they're not from Publisher's Clearing House.

[knight0334]

I too have another question. If any intruder were to come through your door does this represent a possible fear for life? The place I live has hollow core doors so it wouldnt take much to get through them, but I always keep them locked. If someone started hacking their way through the door would I be justified in shooting through the door if sight of the perp wasnt able to be had?

This is what PA's present Castle Doctrine lacks in statutory law. ...the presumption that the intruder intends to cause harm. By the wording of the law, you must be in fear of life, limb, rape, or kidnapping even within your home, but you need not retreat while within your home.

However, a couple years ago a guy in Venango county shot a drunkard through his front door while the drunk tried kicking it in. The resident was either found not guilty or it was ruled justified(cant remember which). There have been other cases that found the resident justified because of being in fear of such evil events while an aggressor attempted entry.

A word to the wise though, do not shoot through the door, only shoot upon full entry into the dwelling - and only do so if you are in fear of death, serious bodily injury, rape, or kidnapping(18.5.505.b.2.ii.A), or if another felony has been committed within the dwelling(18.5.507.c.4.ii.B).

[Kyle H]

First of all, you must always be sure of your target. That isn't the case in your scenario.

Second, if someone is "hacking their way through the door", you can rest assured they're not from Publisher's Clearing House.

Yeah I was kind of in a hurry when I typed that this AM. I meant more like in situation where you established that the person on the other side was there to do harm through verbal contact. I wouldnt go putting holes in my door at the sound of a loud knock. Oh and the other thing was I meant my bedroom door, not sure why I left that out in my rush, but yeah not the front door.

[bob308]

if a person or persons break down your door and enter you living space. do you really think they are collecting for the united way???

[knight0334]

if a person or persons break down your door and enter you living space. do you really think they are collecting for the united way???

Certainly not, but it could also be your daughter and her new boyfriend making a surprise home-coming from college, but they hit the bar before coming home. And in their drunken stupidity decide to kick the door in because they broke the key off.

Without absolute certainty of the person on the other side of the door - one cannot shoot.

Even without a violent kick-in of a door it is unwise to shoot from the git-go. People do mistakenly enter the wrong houses without malicious intent. Would you want to shoot the utility worker or contractor who is trying to earn a living to feed his 3 kids and pregnant wife that went back out to his truck for a tool/part then came back to the wrong house? Or it could be your lovely young neighbor that is fleeing to your house for safety from a rapist in her home. ...it happens.

[GunLawyer001]

Certainly not, but it could also be your daughter and her new boyfriend making a surprise home-coming from college, but they hit the bar before coming home. And in their drunken stupidity decide to kick the door in because they broke the key off.

Without absolute certainty of the person on the other side of the door - one cannot shoot.

Even without a violent kick-in of a door it is unwise to shoot from the git-go. People do mistakenly enter the wrong houses without malicious intent. Would you want to shoot the utility worker or contractor who is trying to earn a living to feed his 3 kids and pregnant wife that went back out to his truck for a tool/part then came back to the wrong house? Or it could be your lovely young neighbor that is fleeing to your house for safety from a rapist in her home. ...it happens.

You are correct, there are few bright-line rules for shoot/no shoot. In every instance, you will be second-guessed by the cops, the DA, and perhaps a jury. Then again for the civil suit.