Father to Son Handgun Transfers?

[Tony Fly]

My dad won a Taurus 709 Slim at a gun Bash on Saturday. The gun is built for a righty and he is a lefty, so he gave it to me (lucky day )

We went to transfer it into my name today and the guy at the gun shop insisted that there is no need for a transfer from father to son.

I know that he is correct, my question though is this... Can/will there be any repercussions if I get pulled over or if I ever have to use it to defend my life? I don't know if it is better to just transfer it to me or if there really is no difference either way.

Thank you for your help!

[paemt]

My dad won a Taurus 709 Slim at a gun Bash on Saturday. The gun is built for a righty and he is a lefty, so he gave it to me (lucky day )

We went to transfer it into my name today and the guy at the gun shop insisted that there is no need for a transfer from father to son.

I know that he is correct, my question though is this... Can/will there be any repercussions if I get pulled over or if I ever have to use it to defend my life? I don't know if it is better to just transfer it to me or if there really is no difference either way.

Thank you for your help!

He was correct.

From: 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111: Sale or transfer of firearms

(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.

[HiredGoon]

Since guns are not required to be registered in PA, and father to son transfers are legal ( if both are PA residents), you are fine.

The cops sometime use the database of handgun sales for "registration" lookups, but in your case the gun would not be in there since it was pased from dad to son...and and that's perfectly legal.

I assume the gun was legally transferred to your dad from the gun bash people.

[ChamberedRound]

Can/will there be any repercussions if I get pulled over or if I ever have to use it to defend my life? I don't know if it is better to just transfer it to me or if there really is no difference either way.

Father-son transfers are completely legal and require no paperwork; he can just hand it to you and that's it.

Can there be repercussions if you have an encounter with the police? It's possible. You are within the law, however as previously stated by others here, some police depts. WRONGLY use the database to verify ownership. If they use this tactic and can't find the gun in your name, they could try and use that to confiscate the weapon. They'd be WRONG, and you could nail their asses to the wall in court if they did, but it could happen.

I'm not trying to scare you, I'm just honestly answering the question, trouble is possible. Then again, it's always possible for a variety of reasons. If I were given a gun by my father I wouldn't "register" the gun, simply because it's not necessary as per the law.

[adymond]

Man I wish my father lived in the state and won a pistol. It would be nice to have a pistol in my possession legally that "the man" didn't know about.

[ChamberedRound]

Man I wish my father lived in the state and won a pistol. It would be nice to have a pistol in my possession legally that "the man" didn't know about.

Agreed, it would be nice to have a pistol that was legally not in the system.

[adymond]

Agreed, it would be nice to have a pistol that was legally not in the system.

Not to get off track, but are C&R pistols "in the system" since I didn't think any reporting needed to be submitted, but simply kept on record with the C&R FFL?

[ChamberedRound]

Not to get off track, but are C&R pistols "in the system" since I didn't think any reporting needed to be submitted, but simply kept on record with the C&R FFL?

It depends. If a C&R pistol is purchased by an individual that does NOT have a C&R FFL, then it's no different than any other handgun purchase.

If the person purchasing the pistol is a C&R FFL themselves, then I would assume they don't need to do anything more than a regular FFL for that purchase. However, whether that simply means keeping up their inventory book, or if that requires additional state compliance, I'm not sure. Either way, though, the purchase is "on the books".

[PANRA]

C&R license holders are required to keep a bound book listing any transactions that they have made with there license. There are no aditional regulations in the State of PA. However the ATF requires that you turn in the documents if you ever decide to not renew your C&R license. The seller or dealer may be required to keep information of the transaction to a C&R lecense holder.

§ 178.125 Record of receipt and disposition (f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors. Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below. The purchase or other acquisition of a curio or relic shall, except as provided in [§ 27 C.F.R 178.125] (g) of this section, be recorded not later than the close of the next business day following the date of such purchase or other acquisition. The record shall show the date of receipt, the name and address or the name and license number of the person from whom received, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), the model, serial number, type, and the caliber or gauge of the firearm curio or relic. The sale or other disposition of a curio or relic shall be recorded by the licensed collector not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial documents maintained by the licensee, and be readily available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm curio or relic, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm curio or relic is transferred, or the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, and the date of birth of the transferee if other than a licensee. In addition, the licensee shall:

1.) Cause the transferee, if other than a licensee, to be identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a driver's license), and note on the record the method used, and
2.) In the case of a transferee who is an alien legally in the United States and who is other than a licensee -

(i) Verify the identity of the transferee by examining an identification document (as defined in § 178.11), and
(ii) Cause the transferee to present documentation establishing that the transferee is a resident of the State (as defined in § 178.11) in which the licensee's business premises is located if the firearm curio or relic is other than a shotgun or rifle, and note on the record the documentation used or is a resident of any State and has resided in such State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the transfer of the firearm if the firearm curio or relic is a shotgun or rifle and shall note on the record the documentation used. Examples of acceptable documentation include utility bills or a lease agreement which show that the transferee has resided in the State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the transfer of the firearm curio or relic.

3.) The format required for the record of receipt and disposition of firearms by collectors is as follows:


Firearms Collectors Acquisition and Disposition Record



§ 178.126a Reporting multiple sales or other disposition of pistols and revolvers. Each licensee shall prepare a report of multiple sales or other disposition whenever the licensee sells or otherwise disposes of, at one time or during any five consecutive business days, two or more pistols, or revolvers, or any combination of pistols and revolvers totaling two or more, to an unlicensed person: Provided, That a report need not be made where pistols or revolvers, or any combination thereof, are returned to the same person from whom they were received. The report shall be prepared on Form 3310.4, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers . Not later than the close of business on the day that the multiple sale or other disposition occurs, the licensee shall forward two copies of Form 3310.4 to the ATF office specified thereon and one copy to the State police or to the local law enforcement agency in which the sale or other disposition took place. Where the State or local law enforcement officials have notified the licensee that a particular official has been designated to receive Forms 3310.4, the licensee shall forward such forms to that designated official. The licensee shall retain one copy of Form 3310.4 and attach it to the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, executed upon delivery of the pistols or revolvers.

§ 178.129 Record Retention (e) Records of dealers and collectors under the Act. The records prepared by licensed dealers and licensed collectors under the Act of the sale or other disposition of firearms and the corresponding record of receipt of such firearms shall be retained through December 15, 1988, after which records of transactions over 20 years of age may be discarded.

§ 178.147 Return of firearm. A person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State or local law may ship a firearm to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer for any lawful purpose, and, notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer may return in interstate or foreign commerce to that person the firearm or a replacement firearm of the same kind and type. See § 178.124(a) for requirements of a Form 4473 prior to return. A person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State or local law may ship a firearm curio or relic to a licensed collector for any lawful purpose, and, notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the licensed collector may return in interstate or foreign commerce to the person the firearm curio or relic.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/intro.htm

[Tony Fly]

Thanks for the help everyone!

Technically, the pistol is in the system as they did the transfer at the Gun Bash in my dad's name.

A round of rep on me!