Planned Parenthood Director Resigns After Watching Abortion Ultrasound

[Pa. Patriot]

No you are trying to interpret the 1A to say something it is not. The government can not in any way establish a religion or prohibit the free exercise thereof. It is cut and dry. That does not in any way mean we need a government free of religion.

Adymond is correct. Religion is part of who we are, as people. You can not have a government, of the people, without religious influence. What you can do is prohibit .gov from establishing a sanction national religion or infringing on the free exercise of religion. And we have done just that. ANd only that There is nothing about religion being verbotten from those serving in gov.

I'm a Diest and it's perfectly clear to me.

[kunsunoke]

Well, surely then no one would have a problem using the embryos for stem cell applications, right? I mean, if we really, unfortunately, went down the slippery slope...

As an exercise, perhaps you could determine exactly how many embryonic stem cell studies have resulted in tangible, functional, adoptable and reliable medical treatments.

You can then compare and contrast against the number of studies conducted with adult stem cells and cord blood stem cells that have resulted in good treatments for diseases.

As a result you may discover why so many people in the progressive movement reflexively support the former to the detriment of the latter.

Hint - it has nothing to do with Parkinson's or any other disease.

Wouldn't we eventually find that gametes are "life" too? It's half a life then? (keeping religious constructs out, though some prohibit the casual waste of male gametes as well...)

Gametes on their own do not become distinct individual human beings. Likewise they do not just of themselves join through meiosis. There has to be a sex act involved. This is where the choice ultimately takes place.

The progressive community seems to think that people have no choices about sex, perhaps because the choices of its members have not been the best.

No more pearl necklaces...

If that's your main concern here, then you really haven't thought about the implications of abortion, have you?

[Corn Flake]

You have to keep religion itself out, or you will find much more information that may surprise some. Like that the percentages how abortions in the US distribute over religious affiliation have a strong correlation to how religions are distributed over the population. I saw somewhere that about 70% of all abortions are had by Protestants and Catholics together. Combined with the fact that over 40% of all women in the US will have at least one abortion by the age of 45 (that was the most disturbing number to me), what does that tell us? That half of Christianity in the US thinks that God doesn't mind abortion, or that they don't give a wet fart about God's wishes?

It's probably both. Many Protestant religions allow abortion (and gay marriage, divorce, etc...). The Catholic Church has always been against abortion. However, I would say that, at least, 50% of US Catholics fall in the 'cafeteria Catholic' category. They're Catholics because their parents were and they were raised that way. But they only show up in church for Baptisms, First Communion, and to get married. They pick and choose what to believe and couldn't give a rat's ass to what the Vatican says.

Here in Scranton, churches are being closed because people are not showing up, even though it has a predominantly Catholic population.

[MostlyHarmless]

As an exercise, perhaps you could determine exactly how many embryonic stem cell studies have resulted in tangible, functional, adoptable and reliable medical treatments.

All irrelevant as long as we are not declaring in vitro fertilized embryos to be protected human lives. Or are you in fact advocating to do so, and consequently have those, involved in the destruction of those human lives, face criminal charges? Hint: That would pretty much put an end to in vitro fertilization as practiced today in the United States.


Jan

[Philbert]

All irrelevant as long as we are not declaring in vitro fertilized embryos to be protected human lives. Or are you in fact advocating to do so, and consequently have those, involved in the destruction of those human lives, face criminal charges? Hint: That would pretty much put an end to in vitro fertilization as practiced today in the United States.


Jan

There are plenty in the evangelical protestant and Catholic communities who would propose just that.

[kunsunoke]

All irrelevant as long as we are not declaring in vitro fertilized embryos to be protected human lives.

Well, what I was actually stating there was that embryonic stem cell research was a dead end. It's yielded exactly nothing. The only reason government and the progressive movement keep forcing the issue is as a smokescreen of support for abortion.

The presumed statement is "Abortion is something we'd like to minimize, but even so there's at least embryonic stem cell cure-alls that result". The former part of the statement is pure bullshit. The latter is an excuse to promote abortion, which for its practitioners is a money making venture and for its proponents a sacrament.

Or are you in fact advocating to do so, and consequently have those, involved in the destruction of those human lives, face criminal charges? Hint: That would pretty much put an end to in vitro fertilization as practiced today in the United States.

The benefits of IVF are what, exactly, to society at large?

Seems to me the presence of all the frozen embryos is a huge ethical quandary. Someone didn't think about any of that shit when they decided to play Josef Mengele.

[Philbert]

The benefits of IVF are what, exactly, to society at large?

Seems to me the presence of all the frozen embryos is a huge ethical quandary. Someone didn't think about any of that shit when they decided to play Josef Mengele.

Nice Godwin. Read what Mengele actually did, and tell us how it is remotely similar to IVF.

The benefits of IVF are those of reproduction in general - which many churches propound at length. Also, all IVF kids are wanted kids - the best kind. Finally, the benefit to the parents, and to the children who are born as a result is pretty high.

[kunsunoke]

Nice Godwin. Read what Mengele actually did, and tell us how it is remotely similar to IVF.

The result of IVF is "spare" embryos, which are then used for experimentation or destroyed, similar to how Mengele experimented on / destroyed Jewish and Rom kids.

The benefits of IVF are those of reproduction in general - which many churches propound at length.

Reproduction in general or IVF? If it's the latter then the churches that make up the majority of Christianity on planet Earth oppose the practice.

Also, all IVF kids are wanted kids - the best kind.

Why specifically are they more 'wanted'?

Is the genetic factor really that important? And if it is, what are the implications of that importance?

Finally, the benefit to the parents, and to the children who are born as a result is pretty high.

Other than sharing the same genetic material, what specifically is the 'benefit'?

Do adopted kids suck or something because they don't share the same gene pool as Mom & Pop?

[pyld]

Well, what I was actually stating there was that embryonic stem cell research was a dead end. It's yielded exactly nothing. The only reason government and the progressive movement keep forcing the issue is as a smokescreen of support for abortion.

Tell you what--man up, and put that in an e-mail to Nancy Reagan. As progressive as she certainly is. Hit up Orrin Hatch. Or Bill Frist. Liberals, all.

Secondly--thanks to the bible thumpers in the previous administration, the first FDA approval for any kind of embryonic stem cell treatment trial in humans were not given until February of 2009. It's a bit early, given that the very first trials are underway to declare a lack of progress--in fact, the lack of progress is the direct result of an idiot (GWB) crossing religion and science.

If you really think that stem cell research is a smokescreen for abortion, your beliefs and/or tinfoil hat is getting in the way of the reality sensor. Really.

The presumed statement is "Abortion is something we'd like to minimize, but even so there's at least embryonic stem cell cure-alls that result". The former part of the statement is pure bullshit. The latter is an excuse to promote abortion, which for its practitioners is a money making venture and for its proponents a sacrament.

The notion that there are hoards of people out there who are "proponents" of abortion is sad, really. It's a common tactic--"abortionists," "proponents of abortion," et al. It's meant to paint folks who wish to maintain a woman's right to choose as evil. Newsflash: people don't usually "promote" abortions (it's a rather disgusting characterization that the right makes)--they promote the choice.

The benefits of IVF are what, exactly, to society at large?

It allows those who are unable to otherwise conceive to bear children. That individual right trumps any religious objection that some percentage of society may have.

Besides which, if we talk about benefits to "society at large," we might as well open the can of worms regarding "unwanted/ill-advised/unsupportable" pregnancy again--and we know where that ends up.

Seems to me the presence of all the frozen embryos is a huge ethical quandary. Someone didn't think about any of that shit when they decided to play Josef Mengele.

Welcome to my ignore list. It takes a great deal of dedication and effort to make it, but comparing IVF to the Nazis is quite enough.

Better yet--man up, find someone who is living a happy live having been conceived IVF, and tell them it's a result of Nazilike behavior. Or don't they count?

[adymond]

I've never understood the fixation on embrionic stem cell research when there are more plentiful readilly available sources of stem cells. Adult bone marrow contains stem cells, and even crushed up wisdom teeth have revealed stem cells.