LTCF Denial question; can I appeal?

[Armed_in_Lancity]

Sounds like you need good legal counsel.

Or, just apply for a Florida license and see if you pass. Correct me if I am wrong, but you could carry on a FL license. You have options.

Do you have to be a resident of Florida to get one ?? I have a LTCF, I was just wondering.

[GunLawyer001]

. . .

I looked over the application and it doesn't ask have you been arrested? it just asked if you have been convicted of certain crimes. There are a bunch, but any drug crime or any misdemeanor that is Punishable by more than two year in prison. So unless its a disqualifying factor, you didn't forget or 'lie' on the application. Don't say you forgot your glasses, you didn't mark anything incorrectly!

They ask "has this applicant been arrested" in the references form, but that's for your references to fill out and not you so it doesn't apply!
. . .

One of the problems is that Philadelphia adds their own illegal form to the state-mandated uniform application form, so what you fill out in MontCo is not what they get handed in Philadelphia, where they do in fact ask about "arrests" and not just "convictions". Mostly, it's a trap for the unwary, who believe (correctly) that an arrest without a conviction has no bearing on your right to an LTCF. (Interestingly, last time I checked, the PA courts were treating some non-conviction arrests differently than others, and they refused to expunge such records if there was enough evidence to make it "likely" that you did the deed, even without enough "beyond a reasonable doubt" evidence to get a conviction.)

[whoshisface]

Nope...................

Do you have to be a resident of Florida to get one ?? I have a LTCF, I was just wondering.

[whoshisface]

Just so we're all clear, upon what do you base this opinion? You're recommending that someone unfamiliar with the laws, and unfamiliar with the applicable rules of court, and inexperienced with dealing with bureaucrats in general, handle his own case and argue against people who argue for a living, and have extensive experience arguing THIS EXACT ISSUE before THESE SAME PEOPLE on the Board of Review.

Kind of like picking the first 11 guys you see on the street and sending them out against the Eagles; technically, they may have seen the game played on TV, they may know enough to stand in the right places and attempt the right moves, but the smart money will be on the professionals for the win.
BTW, to the OP, I would be willing to review your appeal form, gratis, just PM me and fax the completed form over.

Hum... I've been in front of a judge plenty of time and got PBJ for pretty much every single traffic ticket I have ever receive except for an illegal left turn on philly, which I didn't know had no points associated with it or I would've just paid it.

I don't think this rises to the level of playing the eagles by a long shot, it isn't a criminal case.

+1 for offering to look at his papers!!! That's very nice of you!!

[MontCo Alex]

One of the problems is that Philadelphia adds their own illegal form to the state-mandated uniform application form, so what you fill out in MontCo is not what they get handed in Philadelphia, where they do in fact ask about "arrests" and not just "convictions". Mostly, it's a trap for the unwary, who believe (correctly) that an arrest without a conviction has no bearing on your right to an LTCF. (Interestingly, last time I checked, the PA courts were treating some non-conviction arrests differently than others, and they refused to expunge such records if there was enough evidence to make it "likely" that you did the deed, even without enough "beyond a reasonable doubt" evidence to get a conviction.)

I looked over the application found here:
http://www.ppdonline.org/pdf/hq/sp4-127-phila.pdf

They do add two pages, but it's for references. The only place I saw where it asks if you've been arrested is on the references, and they wouldn't know. Maybe they hand you another form when you stop in that asks you about arrests?

-Alex

[GunLawyer001]

I'm not trying to offend you but, if the facts he states are true, and he's not rich, then I would say this isn't worth getting a lawyer for. BTW I'm only saying what I would personally do. From what I've read, it seems pretty clear that harrisburg isn't buying refusals in general(except on real criminal or mental reasons). Sure it would be great to have a million dollar lawyer, but with just a few days of effort putting facts together almost anyone should be able to handle representing themselves in a case like this. If someone gets a crap judge a lawyer probably wouldn't help anyway. If someone has a great one the judge will see through philly's crap pretty quickly and give the guy a break on not being savoy. Sometimes I think lawyers want to public to be intimidated from presenting their own cases. I'm not saying that's what you personally are doing. IMO people shouldn't be afraid to stand in front of a magistrate or judge on non-criminal, low financial impact, judicial activity. I'm absolutely certain I wouldn't get a lawyer for this case, no matter how much money I had.

Well, I don't usually take Philadelphia cases anymore, and I've given the OP some advice on how to proceed pro se, so I have nothing to gain by frightening him about what's facing him.

The reality is that if you play against people with more experience and a better understanding of the rules, you'll usually lose. I don't have to scare people, but I have no agenda to undercut the legal profession, either. I've seen what happens to the sheep when they go up against the wolves.

Before you advise real people with real problems about what they SHOULD do to fix what's wrong in their lives, a serious & conscientious person would provide some basis for what they're saying, to help distinguish the sage advice from the Internet commando bullshit. I will tell you that when my opponent has been pro se, I don't recall a single instance where they won. I've had clients come to me after they lost matters that they handled on their own, and generally the mess can't be fixed.

And his appeal in this matter is not to a "judge", it's L&I's Board of Review. You have to get the basic facts right about what he's facing in his LTCF denial appeal in Philadelphia before you attain credibility with predicting odds of success with or without counsel; it's like a bookie who talks about the Phillies losing in "the second quarter", or the guy who claims he was "an Army SEAL", how much are you going to listen to the guy after that?

[Mocha Java]

You might want to make this post of mine a sticky and save somebody else the hassle:

4 Days Ago
Mocha Java
Active Member

Re: Need info for a new gun owner in Philadelphia

I just want to add something about the LTC process:

Always tell the WHOLE truth when you are interviewed.
If you or anyone else applying has ever been arrested, no matter how trivial the offense, no matter how long ago or no matter if it has been expunged, you will have to answer yes or they will deny you for lying on the interview.

You can appeal your dismissal yourself to the Board of License and Inspection Review--a bunch of hacks and cronies.
You must be careful to bring up all relevant arguments and facts because if you are denied (or if you win and the City appeals) that will be the record that the Common Pleas Court will rule on if you want to pursue it further.
If I were you I would appeal it at least that far and explain that you are not a lawyer and did not fully understand the technical aspect of the "arrest" question.
You never know, you might win.I would also go to a L&I Review Board meeting or two just to get an idea of what goes on.
OP has been quite clear about his financial situation. That $250 "consulting fee" is just the beginning...

[whoshisface]

Well, I guess i've been lucky then because I've taken on princpal finacial group "experts" after they denied long term disability insurance claim and I won three tomes now against them. Must just be me or some odd ball luck. If his facts are correct I'll take a bet he wins!!! 10 to 1 Ten bucks to a hundred, you on?

Well, I don't usually take Philadelphia cases anymore, and I've given the OP some advice on how to proceed pro se, so I have nothing to gain by frightening him about what's facing him.

The reality is that if you play against people with more experience and a better understanding of the rules, you'll usually lose. I don't have to scare people, but I have no agenda to undercut the legal profession, either. I've seen what happens to the sheep when they go up against the wolves.

Before you advise real people with real problems about what they SHOULD do to fix what's wrong in their lives, a serious & conscientious person would provide some basis for what they're saying, to help distinguish the sage advice from the Internet commando bullshit. I will tell you that when my opponent has been pro se, I don't recall a single instance where they won. I've had clients come to me after they lost matters that they handled on their own, and generally the mess can't be fixed.

And his appeal in this matter is not to a "judge", it's L&I's Board of Review. You have to get the basic facts right about what he's facing in his LTCF denial appeal in Philadelphia before you attain credibility with predicting odds of success with or without counsel; it's like a bookie who talks about the Phillies losing in "the second quarter", or the guy who claims he was "an Army SEAL", how much are you going to listen to the guy after that?

[God's Country]

So let me get this straight.

You claim the only reason for denial is not admitting to having been arrested as a juvi?

You need to find the $250. Seriously that’s almost nothing to retain a lawyer.

I can’t believe if your story is factual, and if you are willing to put up the cash to retain a lawyer that you won’t find support here.

Sell a gun if you need too.

[GunLawyer001]

Well, I guess i've been lucky then because I've taken on princpal finacial group "experts" after they denied long term disability insurance claim and I won three tomes now against them. Must just be me or some odd ball luck. If his facts are correct I'll take a bet he wins!!! 10 to 1 Ten bucks to a hundred, you on?

That would be a conflict of interest, since I've given him advice and offered more; plus, I'm rooting for him. And gambling is illegal. But mostly because I'd like to see him prevail.