LTCF Denial question; can I appeal?

[Al-Mumit]

The problem is I'm not sure how I can prove my intent here. The way I see it, a mistake was made, not a lie. I mean, I could go in and, considering I was open about my case and whatnot, claim I overlooked where the officer who questioned me put 'no' for the arrest question. Its quite obvious that I didn't try to hide anything since I did answer yes to the question of conviction... isn't it?

Otherwise, I'm not entirely sure what paperwork I could present in my defense.

[gbrown221]

What Philly is doing is illegal.

It is agains PA law to use non conviction data (arrests) or convictions of summary offense when issuing a license.

philly revoked me for not disclosing an expunged matter when I was applying for my maine non resident permit and maine had contacted philly

I appealed to L and I and got it back. I also sued for my attorney fees.

greg

[gbrown221]

Here is the information on Summary Offenses,

First you will see that Summary Offenses are not crimes, Section 106.
Secondly, Summary offenses cannot be used to deny a license or employment even if convicted. The can not use non conviction data. i.e. in your case arrest that led to a dismissal either prior to adjudication.




18 Pa.C.S. 106 Classes of offenses.
(a) General rule.--An offense defined by this title for which a sentence of death or of imprisonment is authorized constitutes a crime. The classes of crime are:
1. Murder of the first degree, of the second degree or of the third degree, first degree murder of an unborn child, second degree murder of an unborn child, or third degree murder of an unborn child.
2. Felony of the first degree.
3. Felony of the second degree.
4. Felony of the third degree.
5. Misdemeanor of the first degree.
6. Misdemeanor of the second degree.
7. Misdemeanor of the third degree.
(b) Classification of crimes.--
1. A crime is a murder of the first degree, of the second degree or of the third degree if it is so designated in this title or if a person convicted of criminal homicide may be sentenced in accordance with the provisions of section 1102 of this title (relating to sentence for murder and murder of an unborn child). A crime is first degree murder of an unborn child, second degree murder of an unborn child or third degree murder of an unborn child if it is so designated in this title or if a person convicted of criminal homicide of an unborn child may be sentenced in accordance with the provisions of section 1102.
2. A crime is a felony of the first degree if it is so designated in this title or if a person convicted thereof may be sentenced to a term of imprisonment, the maximum of which is more than ten years.
3. A crime is a felony of the second degree if it is so designated in this title or if a person convicted thereof may be sentenced to a term of imprisonment, the maximum of which is not more than ten years.
4. A crime is a felony of the third degree if it is so designated in this title or if a person convicted thereof may be sentenced to a term of imprisonment, the maximum of which is not more than seven years.
5. A crime declared to be a felony, without specification of degree, is of the third degree.
6. A crime is a misdemeanor of the first degree if it is so designated in this title or if a person convicted thereof may be sentenced to a term of imprisonment, the maximum of which is not more than five years.
7. A crime is a misdemeanor of the second degree if it is so designated in this title or if a person convicted thereof may be sentenced to a term of imprisonment, the maximum of which is not more than two years.
8. A crime is a misdemeanor of the third degree if it is so designated in this title or if a person convicted thereof may be sentenced to a term of imprisonment, the maximum of which is not more than one year.
9. A crime declared to be a misdemeanor, without specification of degree, is of the third degree.
(c) Summary offenses.--An offense defined by this title constitutes a summary offense if:
1. it is so designated in this title, or in a statute other than this title; or
2. if a person convicted thereof may be sentenced to a term of imprisonment, the maximum of which is not more than 90 days.
(d) Other crimes.--Any offense declared by law to constitute a crime, without specification of the class thereof, is a misdemeanor of the second degree, if the maximum sentence does not make it a felony under this section.
(e) Section applicable to other statutes.--An offense hereafter defined by any statute other than this title shall be classified as provided in this section.


18 Pa.C.S. § 9124. Use of records by licensing agencies.
(a) State agencies.--Except as provided by this chapter, a board, commission or department of the Commonwealth, when determining eligibility for licensing, certification, registration or permission to engage in a trade, profession or occupation, may consider convictions of the applicant of crimes but the convictions shall not preclude the issuance of a license, certificate, registration or permit.
(b) Prohibited use of information.--The following information shall not be used in consideration of an application for a license, certificate, registration or permit:
1. Records of arrest if there is no conviction of a crime based on the arrest.
2. Convictions which have been annulled or expunged.
3. Convictions of a summary offense.
4. Convictions for which the individual has received a pardon from the Governor.
5. Convictions which do not relate to the applicant's suitability for the license, certificate, registration or permit.
(c) State action authorized.--Boards, commissions or departments of the Commonwealth authorized to license, certify, register or permit the practice of trades, occupations or professions may refuse to grant or renew, or may suspend or revoke any license, certificate, registration or permit for the following causes:
1. Where the applicant has been convicted of a felony.
2. Where the applicant has been convicted of a misdemeanor which relates to the trade, occupation or profession for which the license, certificate, registration or permit is sought.
(d) Notice.--The board, commission or department shall notify the individual in writing of the reasons for a decision which prohibits the applicant from practicing the trade, occupation or profession if such decision is based in whole or part on conviction of any crime.

[Al-Mumit]

The issue doesn't seem to be that I had an arrest, just that I 'failed to disclose' it. Thus far I feel as though the best thing I can do is claim a mistake was made as I disclosed all the info involving my 'arrest' on the application, just not the 'arrest' itself.

[uniballin]

Thank God I'm a resident of Northampton county and not Philly.

The horror stories I read on here are just astounding.

[velkly]

Thank God I'm a resident of Northampton county and not Philly.

The horror stories I read on here are just astounding.

I was just thinking the same thing. Lancaster is down to a 30 minute turn around and no hassles.

[GunLawyer001]

First, you should ignore every other post in this thread, there's a lot of bad info and I'm not going to cover each one.

I've handled this exact situation in Philadelphia. It only seems to happen in Philadelphia. It's a trap laid out by the Philadelphia PD, as part of their goal of denying as many LTCF applications as possible.

Non-convictions are not prohibiting. "Lying on the application" is not a prohibitor, either. The grounds for denial are clearly listed in the PA statutes, so is the requirement that the issuing authority cite to one of the listed reasons in their denial. Philadelphia doesn't care, or is unable to read; I'm not sure which would be worse, ignorance or intentional violation of the law by law enforcement officials.

Regardless, your appeal in Philadelphia is via the bizarre process of filing an appeal to the L&I review board, the same people who rule on whether you can add a shed or a fence. There's a form at the PD. Your chances are better with a lawyer, but they aren't zero without a lawyer. If you go it alone, I'd bring a copy of the PA statute on license issuance, and mention that the grounds for denial are not listed in the statute.

As for whether an expunged arrest can be used against you, if you mention the arrest to the officer but didn't write it down, they'll use that against you. They'll use everything against you. The people in charge DON'T WANT YOU TO CARRY A GUN, and they're annoyed that the Commonwealth has taken this little favor out of their hands. It used to be something they could hand out to their friends, now even Republicans have to be issued an LTCF unless they can come up with a reason for denial.

Obtain the form and file that appeal within 20 days (I think you have 30, but why wait?) If you don't appeal (or if you lose), you can't re-apply for another year, and they'll probably bounce you again for being a liar. It may be worth hiring a lawyer to boost your chances, it's not so much about the license as being able to fight back on the streets without being arrested or killed. (Remember that carrying without a license when you're ineligible for a license is bumped up to a Felony.)

I recommend Jon Mirowitz for Philadelphia gun issues, he's NRA recommended and I used to work with him back in the 1990's.

[fingers80002]

First, you should ignore every other post in this thread, there's a lot of bad info and I'm not going to cover each one.

I've handled this exact situation in Philadelphia. It only seems to happen in Philadelphia. It's a trap laid out by the Philadelphia PD, as part of their goal of denying as many LTCF applications as possible.

Non-convictions are not prohibiting. "Lying on the application" is not a prohibitor, either. The grounds for denial are clearly listed in the PA statutes, so is the requirement that the issuing authority cite to one of the listed reasons in their denial. Philadelphia doesn't care, or is unable to read; I'm not sure which would be worse, ignorance or intentional violation of the law by law enforcement officials.

Regardless, your appeal in Philadelphia is via the bizarre process of filing an appeal to the L&I review board, the same people who rule on whether you can add a shed or a fence. There's a form at the PD. Your chances are better with a lawyer, but they aren't zero without a lawyer. If you go it alone, I'd bring a copy of the PA statute on license issuance, and mention that the grounds for denial are not listed in the statute.

As for whether an expunged arrest can be used against you, if you mention the arrest to the officer but didn't write it down, they'll use that against you. They'll use everything against you. The people in charge DON'T WANT YOU TO CARRY A GUN, and they're annoyed that the Commonwealth has taken this little favor out of their hands. It used to be something they could hand out to their friends, now even Republicans have to be issued an LTCF unless they can come up with a reason for denial.

Obtain the form and file that appeal within 20 days (I think you have 30, but why wait?) If you don't appeal (or if you lose), you can't re-apply for another year, and they'll probably bounce you again for being a liar. It may be worth hiring a lawyer to boost your chances, it's not so much about the license as being able to fight back on the streets without being arrested or killed. (Remember that carrying without a license when you're ineligible for a license is bumped up to a Felony.)

I recommend Jon Mirowitz for Philadelphia gun issues, he's NRA recommended and I used to work with him back in the 1990's.

^^^^^^^ this is what you should do.^^^^^^^^^^^^

Believe it or not, he does know what he talks about.......

[Al-Mumit]

First, you should ignore every other post in this thread, there's a lot of bad info and I'm not going to cover each one.

I've handled this exact situation in Philadelphia. It only seems to happen in Philadelphia. It's a trap laid out by the Philadelphia PD, as part of their goal of denying as many LTCF applications as possible.

Non-convictions are not prohibiting. "Lying on the application" is not a prohibitor, either. The grounds for denial are clearly listed in the PA statutes, so is the requirement that the issuing authority cite to one of the listed reasons in their denial. Philadelphia doesn't care, or is unable to read; I'm not sure which would be worse, ignorance or intentional violation of the law by law enforcement officials.

Regardless, your appeal in Philadelphia is via the bizarre process of filing an appeal to the L&I review board, the same people who rule on whether you can add a shed or a fence. There's a form at the PD. Your chances are better with a lawyer, but they aren't zero without a lawyer. If you go it alone, I'd bring a copy of the PA statute on license issuance, and mention that the grounds for denial are not listed in the statute.

As for whether an expunged arrest can be used against you, if you mention the arrest to the officer but didn't write it down, they'll use that against you. They'll use everything against you. The people in charge DON'T WANT YOU TO CARRY A GUN, and they're annoyed that the Commonwealth has taken this little favor out of their hands. It used to be something they could hand out to their friends, now even Republicans have to be issued an LTCF unless they can come up with a reason for denial.

Obtain the form and file that appeal within 20 days (I think you have 30, but why wait?) If you don't appeal (or if you lose), you can't re-apply for another year, and they'll probably bounce you again for being a liar. It may be worth hiring a lawyer to boost your chances, it's not so much about the license as being able to fight back on the streets without being arrested or killed. (Remember that carrying without a license when you're ineligible for a license is bumped up to a Felony.)

I recommend Jon Mirowitz for Philadelphia gun issues, he's NRA recommended and I used to work with him back in the 1990's.

Thank you! I will be taking your advice, but unfortunately I don't think I can afford a lawyer...

[whoshisface]

I don't see one thing here that you said that was different from what anyone else has said, but he should ignore all the posts. :rollingeyes:

First, you should ignore every other post in this thread, there's a lot of bad info and I'm not going to cover each one.

I've handled this exact situation in Philadelphia. It only seems to happen in Philadelphia. It's a trap laid out by the Philadelphia PD, as part of their goal of denying as many LTCF applications as possible.

Non-convictions are not prohibiting. "Lying on the application" is not a prohibitor, either. The grounds for denial are clearly listed in the PA statutes, so is the requirement that the issuing authority cite to one of the listed reasons in their denial. Philadelphia doesn't care, or is unable to read; I'm not sure which would be worse, ignorance or intentional violation of the law by law enforcement officials.

Regardless, your appeal in Philadelphia is via the bizarre process of filing an appeal to the L&I review board, the same people who rule on whether you can add a shed or a fence. There's a form at the PD. Your chances are better with a lawyer, but they aren't zero without a lawyer. If you go it alone, I'd bring a copy of the PA statute on license issuance, and mention that the grounds for denial are not listed in the statute.

As for whether an expunged arrest can be used against you, if you mention the arrest to the officer but didn't write it down, they'll use that against you. They'll use everything against you. The people in charge DON'T WANT YOU TO CARRY A GUN, and they're annoyed that the Commonwealth has taken this little favor out of their hands. It used to be something they could hand out to their friends, now even Republicans have to be issued an LTCF unless they can come up with a reason for denial.

Obtain the form and file that appeal within 20 days (I think you have 30, but why wait?) If you don't appeal (or if you lose), you can't re-apply for another year, and they'll probably bounce you again for being a liar. It may be worth hiring a lawyer to boost your chances, it's not so much about the license as being able to fight back on the streets without being arrested or killed. (Remember that carrying without a license when you're ineligible for a license is bumped up to a Felony.)

I recommend Jon Mirowitz for Philadelphia gun issues, he's NRA recommended and I used to work with him back in the 1990's.