Solider who refuses to return to Afghanistan leads thousands on anti-war march....

[max384]

A contract to obey lawful orders. The US and England showed the world in no uncertain terms that aggressive war is an unlawful order, and obeying it is punishable by death, when they created the Nuremberg doctrine and executed German grunts for fighting as ordered.

This is nothing like Nazi Germany. The comparison is ludicrous. I mean, the winner of the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize is overseeing this war... (I couldn't resist)

In the Nuremberg trials, only high ranking military, political, and economic officials were put on trial and executed, not the grunts. These individuals were put on trial for heinous war crimes. This is completely different from today's unpopular war.

Let's get real, the guy's a coward, not someone standing up against an evil regime. If he was really against the war, he would have never signed up in the first place. He was over there, got a taste of combat, and didn't like it.

[max384]

And they promptly let Bin Ladin escape through Pakistan. Later, Bush admitted that Bin Ladin "wasn't a priority" for him. He was lying, of course: his TOP priority was NOT catching Bin Ladin, because the American people would demand that he declare victory and bring home the troops. He could only have his Forever War if the bad guy got away, never to be found again. The next four Presidents will still be hunting for the ghost of Bin Ladin.

Okay. That is your opinion, not fact. It still is no excuse for the soldier from the original post to refuse to go to war.

[phillyd2]

"War is just a racket. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket."

Says who? As sad as it is to say the simple truth is that wars have settled just about every major issue in human history. Not the least of which is our very freedom. Wars, as horrible as they are, have freed millions of people. Wars, as brutal as they are, have stopped tyrants and protected the innocent.

Its funny isn't it that we never had to explain to the Italian people, for example, that that our beef was with Mussolini not them. My own parents were happy with tears while American bombers were leveling their cities while they were under Nazi occupation. No joke!

Wars solve problems. Those who know me know that I hate war more than most, for good reason, but please give me a fucking break with this Quaker pacifist crap. Its too easy to have such attitudes when you live next to a police station but most people don't. War is a reality of life and wishing it away only works in the mind of 3 year olds.

And please spare me the phony so called sophisticated view of Afghanistan. Or at the very least offer a real world workable alternative that does not result in a safe haven for evil men to plot and plan the deaths of even more innocent people. Yeah, I'm just so sure that without US troops there the evil fuckers would not go back to business as usual. Just like if we would have just left Hitler alone he would have finally come to his senses. I'm equally sure that if we did not stand firm against the USSR they would have finally seen the light while planting pretty flower gardens around the globe.

Why is it so damn hard to understand that there is evil in the world? Hell, most here carry or at least own guns because there is evil around us yet for some reason can not understand the concept on a broader scale.

Would any of you really just sit quietly in your homes while the guy next door killed his wife and raped his daughter? How about if he told you outright that he planned on killing you and your family and everyday you see him bringing more items into his house to do the deed? Would you just mind your own business? Really?

[buster2209]

Let's get real, the guy's a coward, not someone standing up against an evil regime. If he was really against the war, he would have never signed up in the first place. He was over there, got a taste of combat, and didn't like it.

Well, we agree on most things max384, but on this point, I have to disagree. I think it takes a lot of balls to go up against the British Government, even more so, IMO, that going into combat. I wouldn't go into combat for any other reason than what Gen Smedley Butler said;

"..There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights."

And yes, it took me going into combat to gain a moral code of when to, and when not to fight. I was thoroughly a kool-aid drinker before I went to Iraq.

[max384]

Well, we agree on most things max384, but on this point, I have to disagree. I think it takes a lot of balls to go up against the British Government, even more so, IMO, that going into combat. I wouldn't go into combat for any other reason than what Gen Smedley Butler said;



And yes, it took me going into combat to gain a moral code of when to, and when not to fight. I was thoroughly a kool-aid drinker before I went to Iraq.

It takes a lot of balls to go up against the British/American/_____ government when there isn't a vested interest, maybe. But, he got orders to go and then goes up against the government... That doesn't take balls. That's being scared to go back to combat.

[buster2209]

Says who?

Smedley Darlington Butler (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940), nicknamed "The Fighting Quaker" and "Old Gimlet Eye", was a Major General in the U.S Marine Corps and, at the time of his death, the most decorated Marine in U.S History.

During his 34 years of Marine Corps service, Butler was awarded numerous medals for heroism including the Marine Corps Brevet Medal (the highest Marine medal at its time for officers),and subsequently the Medal of Honor twice. Notably, he is one of only 19 people to be twice awarded the Medal of Honor, and one of only three to be awarded a Marine Corps Brevet Medal and a Medal of Honor, and the only person to be awarded a Marine Corps Brevet Medal and a Medal of Honor for two different actions.

Its funny isn't it that we never had to explain to the Italian people, for example, that that our beef was with Mussolini not them. My own parents were happy with tears while American bombers were leveling their cities while they were under Nazi occupation. No joke!

Wars solve problems. Those who know me know that I hate war more than most, for good reason, but please give me a fucking break with this Quaker pacifist crap. Its too easy to have such attitudes when you live next to a police station but most people don't. War is a reality of life and wishing it away only works in the mind of 3 year olds.

And please spare me the phony so called sophisticated view of Afghanistan. Or at the very least offer a real world workable alternative that does not result in a safe haven for evil men to plot and plan the deaths of even more innocent people. Yeah, I'm just so sure that without US troops there the evil fuckers would not go back to business as usual. Just like if we would have just left Hitler alone he would have finally come to his senses. I'm equally sure that if we did not stand firm against the USSR they would have finally seen the light while planting pretty flower gardens around the globe.

Why is it so damn hard to understand that there is evil in the world? Hell, most here carry or at least own guns because there is evil in the around us yet for some reason can not understand the concept on a broader scale.

WW2 is different to the wars that are going on now. Etelast Congress actually declared war on Germany in WW2 which was the last time it ever had that 'privilege'.

I am not a pacifist by any means, I just don't like to go spoiling for a fight.

May I also remind you that George Washington wanted to remain neutral during the French Revolution and not to take anybodies side. I am not advocating anything that the first President of the USA did not .

And if going after the Taliban is retribution for 9/11, I think we've made our point with the deaths of MILLIONS of citizens in the middle east.

Would any of you really just sit quietly in your homes while the guy next door killed his wife and raped his daughter? How about if he told you outright that he planned on killing you and your family and everyday you see him bringing more items into his house to do the deed? Would you just mind your own business? Really?

That is completely different! We live in a land of law, the middle east has it owns laws. Who the hell are we to go in there and tell them that they're doing it wrong, they should do it OUR way.

[buster2209]

Wars solve problems.

Where did you get this little gem from, the neo-con handbook?

[andrewjs18]

Says who? As sad as it is to say the simple truth is that wars have settled just about every major issue in human history. Not the least of which is our very freedom. Wars, as horrible as they are, have freed millions of people. Wars, as brutal as they are, have stopped tyrants and protected the innocent.

Its funny isn't it that we never had to explain to the Italian people, for example, that that our beef was with Mussolini not them. My own parents were happy with tears while American bombers were leveling their cities while they were under Nazi occupation. No joke!

Wars solve problems. Those who know me know that I hate war more than most, for good reason, but please give me a fucking break with this Quaker pacifist crap. Its too easy to have such attitudes when you live next to a police station but most people don't. War is a reality of life and wishing it away only works in the mind of 3 year olds.

And please spare me the phony so called sophisticated view of Afghanistan. Or at the very least offer a real world workable alternative that does not result in a safe haven for evil men to plot and plan the deaths of even more innocent people. Yeah, I'm just so sure that without US troops there the evil fuckers would not go back to business as usual. Just like if we would have just left Hitler alone he would have finally come to his senses. I'm equally sure that if we did not stand firm against the USSR they would have finally seen the light while planting pretty flower gardens around the globe.

Why is it so damn hard to understand that there is evil in the world? Hell, most here carry or at least own guns because there is evil around us yet for some reason can not understand the concept on a broader scale.

Would any of you really just sit quietly in your homes while the guy next door killed his wife and raped his daughter? How about if he told you outright that he planned on killing you and your family and everyday you see him bringing more items into his house to do the deed? Would you just mind your own business? Really?

since when does War solve any problem? I'm curious.... a ton of people die, families are destroyed, billions of dollars are spent to fund wars, etc...

[phillyd2]

Where did you get this little gem from, the neo-con handbook?

Life But feel free to tell me all the major issues settled without war. Maybe if we just would have talked harshly to the Brits in 1776 they would have went home lol

[buster2209]

Life But feel free to tell me all the major issues settled without war. Maybe if we just would have talked harshly to the Brits in 1776 they would have went home lol

You did try to talk to the British but they didn't listen so you had no recourse but to go to war.

I go back to what I originally said;

There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights.

Fighting the British fits criteria number one.