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Thread: CC on private property w/o LTCF
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October 22nd, 2009, 09:47 AM #1
CC on private property w/o LTCF
A buddy and I were having a conversation yesterday and we got on to the topic of carrying a firearm while on private property. He asked me if it was legal for someone to CC on private property or carry in a vehicle on private property without a LTCF. In the discussed situation the person carrying would either own the property or have permission from the owner.
IANAL, but my opinion was that neither would be illegal because it is private property. I equated it to an unlicensed driver operating a motor vehicle on a long private lane or in a field.
Does anyone know the legalities of this situation?Manus Haec Inimica Tyrannis
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October 22nd, 2009, 09:51 AM #2Grand Member
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Re: CC on private property w/o LTCF
You are correct. No license is needed for concealed carry on your personal property or anothers who has given you permission to carry.
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October 22nd, 2009, 10:21 AM #3
Re: CC on private property w/o LTCF
IANAL, but IMHO this isn't entirely true. While it's likely there wouldn't be an issue when CCing with the permission of the property owner, there isn't a bright line in the law which exempts those who CC outside on private property. See here (emphasis by me):
§6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
(a) Offense defined.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
Also note that none of the exceptions listed in §6106.b include a case for a property owner CCing outside on his property, so this is a gray area in the law. Again, it'll likely never be tested, but it could happen."Political Correctness is just tyranny with manners"
-Charlton Heston
"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
-James Madison, Federalist Papers, No. 46.
"America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy." [sic]
-John Quincy Adams
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
-Thomas Jefferson
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October 22nd, 2009, 10:28 AM #4
Re: CC on private property w/o LTCF
Only inside your place of abode or place of work may you carry concealed without a license. That means within your dwelling(the building proper), it doesn't include lands or common areas.
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October 22nd, 2009, 10:29 AM #5
Re: CC on private property w/o LTCF
I concur that "except in his place of abode" does seem pretty vague.
Thanks for the input!Manus Haec Inimica Tyrannis
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October 22nd, 2009, 10:32 AM #6Grand Member
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Re: CC on private property w/o LTCF
Gunlawyer covered this same scenario in his workshop.
ONLY in your fixed abode, or place of bussiness.
This does not include your porch, yard, or common grounds at a complex.
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October 22nd, 2009, 11:42 AM #7
Re: CC on private property w/o LTCF
"Political Correctness is just tyranny with manners"
-Charlton Heston
"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
-James Madison, Federalist Papers, No. 46.
"America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy." [sic]
-John Quincy Adams
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
-Thomas Jefferson
Μολών λαβέ!
-King Leonidas
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October 22nd, 2009, 05:08 PM #8Grand Member
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Re: CC on private property w/o LTCF
Abode = home. I don't see anything vague about that.
Only in your home or your workplace may you conceal a firearm without a LTCF.
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October 22nd, 2009, 06:31 PM #9Grand Member
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Re: CC on private property w/o LTCF
Why bother concealing on private property? If I'm wearing jeans with a belt, a Ruger SP101 or a Glock 19 goes with me. If I'm wearing bib overalls, then I'll be concealing solely because there's no easy way to OC then (.38 goes in a pocket).
Unless you're a felon, OC would be totally legal for you.
Now, I'm not a fan of OC when I'm off my property (although I do on occasion), but that's more to do with stealth (I don't want people know I'm packing) then anything else.Well, pushed 60 too hard so now I am the big SIX-OH. Now I can be a real pain in the ass! And, who says growin' old isn't fun!!
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October 22nd, 2009, 07:15 PM #10Grand Member
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Re: CC on private property w/o LTCF
I don't know how it has been applied in reality, but the language of the statue indicates to me that it only applies to your OWN place of abode, and not that of another person who gives you permission.
...except in his place of abode or fixed place of business...
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