Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #811
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    Default Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania

    Quote Originally Posted by orange View Post
    Is there a particular place where a "GUNS PROHIBITED" sign must be placed. Doors? I have yet to see one, but I've only lived in PA about 7 weeks.

    Any well-known stores/chains that don't allow guns?

    thanks
    Placed where they could reasonably be expected to be seen at places of ingress.

    Note, if you defy signage in PA there isn't a firearms law or violation like there would be in TX or OH - it would a summary violation of Trespassing in PA. ...which can escalate to misdemeanor if you don't comply after a verbal command.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  2. #812
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    Question Definition of psych hospital?

    I can't find an answer, and I'm in no mood to Google for hours to find it:

    My father (82yo, still strong as an ox, but with bad balance) is heading rapidly down the dementia trail, and will be winding up in a nursing home. In the interim, we intend for him to stay with Mom (77yo, polio at 8, on crutches ever since), but we may have no choice but to have him committed to a hospital psych ward to keep Mom safe. Is an entire hospital off limits if they have a psych ward? I wouldn't carry to the ward, but the Kung Flu is only allowing 1 visitor in hospitals at most, and I would be in the lobby/waiting room after driving Mom there. I don't have a lockbox in Mom's car. I'm not asking about hospital policy - what is the LAW?

    Thanks.

  3. #813
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    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Definition of psych hospital?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.K View Post
    I can't find an answer, and I'm in no mood to Google for hours to find it:

    My father (82yo, still strong as an ox, but with bad balance) is heading rapidly down the dementia trail, and will be winding up in a nursing home. In the interim, we intend for him to stay with Mom (77yo, polio at 8, on crutches ever since), but we may have no choice but to have him committed to a hospital psych ward to keep Mom safe. Is an entire hospital off limits if they have a psych ward? I wouldn't carry to the ward, but the Kung Flu is only allowing 1 visitor in hospitals at most, and I would be in the lobby/waiting room after driving Mom there. I don't have a lockbox in Mom's car. I'm not asking about hospital policy - what is the LAW?

    Thanks.

    (Cue the usual "I am not a lawyer" disclaimer) I don't believe there are any laws restricting the carrying of weapons on hospital grounds in Pennsylvania, even in psych wards. From what I understand, the only places that are clearly defined as restricted are courthouses, Federal buildings (including US Post Offices), and K-12 schools (although that's debatable, but no one wants to be a test case). With pretty much every other location, the worst they can do is post signs and tell you to leave if it's found through a metal detector or printing or what-have-you. If you refuse to leave, then there's the possibility of trespassing charges.

  4. #814
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    Pennsyltucky, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Definition of psych hospital?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.K View Post
    I can't find an answer, and I'm in no mood to Google for hours to find it:

    My father (82yo, still strong as an ox, but with bad balance) is heading rapidly down the dementia trail, and will be winding up in a nursing home. In the interim, we intend for him to stay with Mom (77yo, polio at 8, on crutches ever since), but we may have no choice but to have him committed to a hospital psych ward to keep Mom safe. Is an entire hospital off limits if they have a psych ward? I wouldn't carry to the ward, but the Kung Flu is only allowing 1 visitor in hospitals at most, and I would be in the lobby/waiting room after driving Mom there. I don't have a lockbox in Mom's car. I'm not asking about hospital policy - what is the LAW?

    Thanks.
    Interesting question.

    Assuming you are referring to this?

    § 5122. Weapons or implements for escape.
    (a) Offenses defined.--
    (1) Except as provided under 61 Pa.C.S. § 5902(e.1)
    (relating to contraband prohibited), a person commits a
    misdemeanor of the first degree if he unlawfully introduces
    within a detention facility, correctional institution or
    mental hospital, or unlawfully provides an inmate thereof
    with any weapon, tool, implement, or other thing which may
    be used for escape.
    Guessing it depends on the definition of mental hospital.
    Find it hard to believe a hospitals psych ward falls under the category of a holding or detention facility, but obviously I'm not lawyer.

  5. #815
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    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: Definition of psych hospital?

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Country View Post
    Interesting question.

    Assuming you are referring to this?



    Guessing it depends on the definition of mental hospital.
    Find it hard to believe a hospitals psych ward falls under the category of a holding or detention facility, but obviously I'm not lawyer.

    I stand corrected, maybe! Yeah, that's an interesting wrinkle. I can already say the hospital probably has a policy against the carrying of firearms anywhere on its property, but would the psych ward fall under the definition of a "mental hospital" or does that only apply to dedicated mental institutions?

  6. #816
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    Default Re: Definition of psych hospital?

    For normal hospitals with only a psychiatric floor - you're probably safe on the grounds and in other parts of the building, but do NOT take it to that floor.


    Personally I would treat dedicated mental hospitals as I would state prisons and state mental hospitals. ....try to avoid even taking it on the grounds, and if you had to take it on the grounds - leave it in the vehicle out of sight. Do NOT attempt to take it in the building.

    It isn't worth the risk of a 1st degree misdemeanor, which is prohibiting like a felony conviction.

    State owned prisons and mental hospitals are no joke. My work area has several prisons and at least 1 mental hospital(Warren). Every time I'm inspecting poles/lines/equipment along the roadway of that borders prisons, a guard in a truck shadows me. And I routinely see guards walking between the visitors cars looking into them.

    As for county jails, you're generally safe to leave the gun in the vehicle(out of sight). Do not take it into the building.

    For police stations and other state law enforcement offices with holding cells, you're generally safe up to the greeting desk and maybe as far as individual offices. The hard line demarcation of no-go would be last door to holding cell areas. But even though the law doesn't outright prohibit the area before that door - the local policy should be followed if it is stricter than law. A DA is likely to side with the police, then a judge/jury is likely to hear how you tried to take a gun into a prohibited place. ...which the odds are against you on winning. I'd use strict caution, probably best to leave it in the vehicle.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  7. #817
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    Default Re: Definition of psych hospital?

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    For normal hospitals with only a psychiatric floor - you're probably safe on the grounds and in other parts of the building, but do NOT take it to that floor.


    Personally I would treat dedicated mental hospitals as I would state prisons and state mental hospitals. ....try to avoid even taking it on the grounds, and if you had to take it on the grounds - leave it in the vehicle out of sight. Do NOT attempt to take it in the building.

    It isn't worth the risk of a 1st degree misdemeanor, which is prohibiting like a felony conviction.

    State owned prisons and mental hospitals are no joke. My work area has several prisons and at least 1 mental hospital(Warren). Every time I'm inspecting poles/lines/equipment along the roadway of that borders prisons, a guard in a truck shadows me. And I routinely see guards walking between the visitors cars looking into them.

    As for county jails, you're generally safe to leave the gun in the vehicle(out of sight). Do not take it into the building.

    For police stations and other state law enforcement offices with holding cells, you're generally safe up to the greeting desk and maybe as far as individual offices. The hard line demarcation of no-go would be last door to holding cell areas. But even though the law doesn't outright prohibit the area before that door - the local policy should be followed if it is stricter than law. A DA is likely to side with the police, then a judge/jury is likely to hear how you tried to take a gun into a prohibited place. ...which the odds are against you on winning. I'd use strict caution, probably best to leave it in the vehicle.
    Having been in quite a few local PD's, I have not seen an actual separate locked door to the holding cells. It would be best to consider the demarcation point in PD's as the locked door at the front window. What I have seen in every single PD that I've been in is a bench in the open with steel rings bolted to the wall for holding prisoners. That bench most times is not near the holding cells themselves. Maybe things have changed since I've been in, especially in stations built in recent years, but all those older stations are probably still the same.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  8. #818
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    Default Re: Definition of psych hospital?

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Having been in quite a few local PD's, I have not seen an actual separate locked door to the holding cells. It would be best to consider the demarcation point in PD's as the locked door at the front window. What I have seen in every single PD that I've been in is a bench in the open with steel rings bolted to the wall for holding prisoners. That bench most times is not near the holding cells themselves. Maybe things have changed since I've been in, especially in stations built in recent years, but all those older stations are probably still the same.
    Yes, that would be safer for sure.

    There isn't any uniform design for police stations across the state. Each building presents its own individual situation. Some stations are new, some are old. Some are cobbled together from some building previously used as commercial space, some made specifically for said purpose. ...way too many variables.

    If in doubt, leave it out.


    Brookville's police station is located in what once used to be office/maintenance/other space of a former assisted living center. The borough acquired the building many years ago. It is laid out like a hospital, now housing borough government and a head-start school.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  9. #819
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    Dover, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: Definition of psych hospital?

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Having been in quite a few local PD's, I have not seen an actual separate locked door to the holding cells. It would be best to consider the demarcation point in PD's as the locked door at the front window. What I have seen in every single PD that I've been in is a bench in the open with steel rings bolted to the wall for holding prisoners. That bench most times is not near the holding cells themselves. Maybe things have changed since I've been in, especially in stations built in recent years, but all those older stations are probably still the same.
    The definition of mental hospital From state law may be a holdover from times when the state owned and ran them. Private hospitals with a ward would be nebulous, as would a locked wing in a private assisted living facility, but I don*t know that I would risk it if the county had an anti-gun DA.

    Police stations I have worked in usually have a (locked) vestibule that leads to areas where those arrested are processed and held. It*s always been clearly defined that no weapons are allowed past that point.

    As knight 0334 noted, state prisons are no joke. I have had my car searched for guns/drugs while driving in to work on premises (with a shirt and tie on). I know of one person who was asked to leave the premises for an empty magazine in his ride.
    Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.

  10. #820
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    Default Re: Definition of psych hospital?

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Country View Post
    Interesting question.

    Assuming you are referring to this?

    § 5122. Weapons or implements for escape.
    (a) Offenses defined.--
    (1) Except as provided under 61 Pa.C.S. § 5902(e.1)
    (relating to contraband prohibited), a person commits a
    misdemeanor of the first degree if he unlawfully introduces
    within a detention facility, correctional institution or
    mental hospital...
    Guessing it depends on the definition of mental hospital.
    Find it hard to believe a hospitals psych ward falls under the category of a holding or detention facility, but obviously I'm not lawyer.
    That's what I was referring to. If I can plan the visit in advance I can park the 1911 at Mom's house, but if it's a 911 episode I doubt that will be top of mind.

    Thanks all for your input so far, but I haven't seen a statute yet that defines whether or not a ward makes the building a mental hospital, like a judges chambers make a wing of a building a "courthouse".

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