READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania

[flyingjunkie]

If you do not see the place in question in the list above - then its NOT off-limits in Pennsylvania. Yes, you may legally carry in a bar, tavern, club, or church in PA.


Why are there so many mixed perceptions on the alcohol issue? Take Adams County, when you apply for a LTCF they give you paperwork that states certain rules:

DO NOT carry your weapon into any Federal, State, County, Municipal buildings, hearing offices or school property.

DO NOT carry or possess a weapon on military installations.

DO NOT carry your weapon when drinking alcohol or into any facility that sells alcohol.

Now, if it is completely legal to conceal and carry in a bar or tavern why do some counties list it like it is an enforced rule that you may not? I don't frequent bars or clubs, but should I go I'd like to know I'm on the correct side of the law...and I've read so many different things about it that I don't know what is right. Any idea why counties list this if they can't legally enforce it?

IANAL

The only thing that can keep you from carrying in a bar/tavern or place that sells alcohol is if it's previously posted by the owner of that establishment. It is legal to carry a firearm in bars and even state stores. Some people may feel otherwise, but state stores (liquor stores) fall under preemption. The same can be said about municipal buildings. It is legal to carry in a municipal building as it falls under preemption as long as that municipal building does not house the police department (e.g. my municipal building in Hopewell is a separate building from the PD, so it is legal to carry in there).

If someone has any more information or I am wrong, please correct me, but I BELIEVE I'm correct in this.

§ 6120. Limitation on the regulation of firearms and
ammunition.
(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may
in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession,
transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition
components when carried or transported for purposes not
prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth. (a.1) No right of action.--
(1) No political subdivision may bring or maintain an action at law or in equity against any firearms or ammunition manufacturer, trade association or dealer for damages, abatement, injunctive relief or any other relief or remedy resulting from or relating to either the lawful design or manufacture of firearms or ammunition or the lawful marketing
or sale of firearms or ammunition to the public.
(2) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to prohibit a political subdivision from bringing or maintaining an action against a firearms or ammunition manufacturer or
dealer for breach of contract or warranty as to firearms or ammunition purchased by the political subdivision. (b) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:
"Dealer." The term shall include any person engaged in the business of selling at wholesale or retail a firearm or ammunition.
"Firearms." This term shall have the meaning given to it in section 5515 (relating to prohibiting of paramilitary training) but shall not include air rifles as that term is defined in section 6304 (relating to sale and use of air rifles).
"Political subdivision." The term shall include any home rule charter municipality, county, city, borough, incorporated town, township or school district.

[knight0334]

If you do not see the place in question in the list above - then its NOT off-limits in Pennsylvania. Yes, you may legally carry in a bar, tavern, club, or church in PA.


Why are there so many mixed perceptions on the alcohol issue? Take Adams County, when you apply for a LTCF they give you paperwork that states certain rules:

DO NOT carry your weapon into any Federal, State, County, Municipal buildings, hearing offices or school property.

DO NOT carry or possess a weapon on military installations.

DO NOT carry your weapon when drinking alcohol or into any facility that sells alcohol.

Now, if it is completely legal to conceal and carry in a bar or tavern why do some counties list it like it is an enforced rule that you may not? I don't frequent bars or clubs, but should I go I'd like to know I'm on the correct side of the law...and I've read so many different things about it that I don't know what is right. Any idea why counties list this if they can't legally enforce it?

Nowhere in PA's laws does it prohibit the carrying into a bar, or carrying while intoxicated. Municipalities cannot make laws in regards to such things either.

Just because the respective sheriff's office says such a thing, it doesn't mean there is a law backing it up.

Even that county's statement about municipal buildings is incorrect. State law determines the off-limits places.. ..a simple municipal building isn't one of them unless it is a "court facility", a jail/detention center/mental hospital, or a K-12 school.

Now back to the bar/tavern issue.. ..if the bar/club/tavern posts a sign stating "No Guns" or anything of the like - then trespass laws have a bearing.

[twency]

IANAL

The only thing that can keep you from carrying in a bar/tavern or place that sells alcohol is if it's previously posted by the owner of that establishment. It is legal to carry a firearm in bars and even state stores. Some people may feel otherwise, but state stores (liquor stores) fall under preemption. The same can be said about municipal buildings. It is legal to carry in a municipal building as it falls under preemption as long as that municipal building does not house the police department (e.g. my municipal building in Hopewell is a separate building from the PD, so it is legal to carry in there).

If someone has any more information or I am wrong, please correct me, but I BELIEVE I'm correct in this.

Why would the presence of a PD make it illegal to carry in a municipal building?

[knight0334]

Why would the presence of a PD make it illegal to carry in a municipal building?

The only thing I can think of is if there is a jail or holding cell in the facility.

But, without that - a police department itself isn't enough to make the place off-limits.

[flyingjunkie]

The only thing I can think of is if there is a jail or holding cell in the facility.

But, without that - a police department itself isn't enough to make the place off-limits.

Good correction to my statement and something to watch for. My PD does in fact have holding cells, so I'm pretty sure that's what makes mine off-limits with a firearm.

[Anthony1911]

Now can you not go in at all if it has holding cells, or are you just not allowed into the secure area (past the front window/desk)?

[tl_3237]

Now can you not go in at all if it has holding cells, or are you just not allowed into the secure area (past the front window/desk)?

IMO it would only apply to the immediate, secure area holding the detention 'facility' and not the entire building housing other functions.

18 Pa CS § 5122. Weapons or implements for escape.
(a) Offenses defined.--
(1) A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree
if he unlawfully introduces within a detention facility,
correctional institution or mental hospital, or unlawfully
provides an inmate thereof with any weapon, tool, implement,
or other thing which may be used for escape.
(2) An inmate commits a misdemeanor of the first degree
if he unlawfully procures, makes or otherwise provides
himself with, or unlawfully has in his possession or under
his control, any weapon, tool, implement or other thing which
may be used for escape.
(3) (Deleted by amendment).
(b) Definitions.--
(1) As used in this section, the word "unlawfully" means
surreptitiously or contrary to law, regulation or order of
the detaining authority.
(2) As used in this section, the word "weapon" means any
implement readily capable of lethal use and shall include any
firearm, ammunition, knife, dagger, razor, other cutting or
stabbing implement or club, including any item which has been
modified or adopted so that it can be used as a firearm,
ammunition, knife, dagger, razor, other cutting or stabbing
implement, or club. The word "firearm" includes an unloaded
firearm and the unassembled components of a firearm.

[twency]

IMO it would only apply to the immediate, secure area holding the detention 'facility' and not the entire building housing other functions.

And here I was thinking we were talking about the § 913 prohibition on carrying in "prisoner holding cells… and any adjoining corridors".

[GunLawyer001]

IMO it would only apply to the immediate, secure area holding the detention 'facility' and not the entire building housing other functions.

That's quite a stretch on the defined term "unlawfully":

(1) As used in this section, the word "unlawfully" means
surreptitiously or contrary to law, regulation or order of
the detaining authority.

In other words, if they put up a "no guns" sign, then you're carrying "unlawfully", even without a single statute that otherwise makes it unlawful.

[Gerry_D]

Getting back to the "Municipal Building" and understanding that it is NOT the headquarters of the police, they are about six blocks away, would it be "lawful" to carry to a council meeting?

I am not aware of any publicly posted signs to that effect, nor is there anywhere to "check it" upon entering the building. Asking that of people at city hall will assuredly get an equal number of answers for, against and they don't have a clue.

At the county courthouse, between the police headquarters and city hall, there are metal detectors, numerous deputies that one may "check it" upon entering.

Parking in downtown Scranton in the evening to attend a council meeting is not safe. I have been hesitant to attend council meetings and give my voice at the proceedings if I must walk several, blocks through that area unarmed. I'm getting older and I can't run nor dodge an attack like when I was younger.