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October 16th, 2009, 04:32 PM #21
Re: Woman who supplied gun that killed trooper charged
I presume when you use the word responsible, you mean morally speaking. Fair enough. How about if she served liquor to someone, and that person was involved in some type of incident that results in death later that evening? She was either a liquor clerk, a bartender, waitress, or party host in this example. Certainly it hasn't really occurred to her that death may occur tonight. Lets say that the person being served or at the party is rendered incapable of safe driving (intoxicated) by drinking this liquor. As a consequence of being incapable of safe driving the intoxicated driver runs a a stop sign, and someone is killed. For the purposes of this conversation being incapable of safe driving, and intoxicated are not the same as being above a certain blood alcohol level such as .08%, they mean actually intoxicated in the real world, not just in a court room. Is the person who served or hosted the party with the alcohol morally responsible for the death?Last edited by Mosinshooter762; October 16th, 2009 at 04:49 PM.
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October 16th, 2009, 06:44 PM #22Grand Member
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Re: Woman who supplied gun that killed trooper charged
I'm confused, it sounds like she was a NJ resident but the pistol was purchased in PA. How is this possible? I thought you need to show a PA license or have it shipped to a FFL in your state.
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October 16th, 2009, 07:02 PM #23
Re: Woman who supplied gun that killed trooper charged
She clearly violated the law by knowingly doing a straw purchase for someone who was temporarily a prohibited person.
However, morally, I'm less comfortable with this. If he had been prohibited for past violent crimes, and she armed him anyway, then she'd be "more" guilty. But the government hands out PFA's like candy, "just in case". Judges don't want to be the person who refused to "protect" a woman by signing the order, so they err on the side of stripping (mostly male) citizens of their fundamental rights to protect themselves.
It's not much different than automatically losing your gun rights if you get a divorce. I can't really assume that anyone with a PFA against him is untrustworthy or violent.
This woman clearly didn't think that this guy was a threat, or she wouldn't have been dating him. It turns out that she was wrong, and in this instance there's strong evidence that he was an untrustworthy badass who really shouldn't have had a gun, or a car; but the reputation of PFA's isn't very good, despite the premise in the media that any Republican who had one is somehow suspect.Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.
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October 17th, 2009, 07:14 AM #24
Re: Woman who supplied gun that killed trooper charged
Um no, I'm not speaking morally, I'm speaking in terms of legality. As the owner of a vehicle you are responsible (legally) for it at all times no matter who is behind the wheel. Ex: when I ran over that guy, even thought I was 18 I was driving my mothers car. She was also sued for 1 million $ because her name was on the title. There's nothing moral about it, it's what the law is.
Now in this case, she bought the firearm, she handed it over to someone that was barred from owning/possessing/handling it (pfa or no pfa) . She broke the law right there and then. Now do to her breaking the law he used this firearm to murder an officer, she is now an accomplice. She is now just as guilty as he is, period. No analogy is going to get her off, she's up shits creek.
Oh and the liquor example you gave. If someone serves a person who is blatantly intoxicated and that person crashes/kills someone, yes they can be held responsible. It has been done in the past and I'm sure there will be cases in the future. Ever read the stories of the mom or dad that got sued for allowing underage drinking in their house and from such 1 kid had an accident and died. They where responsible (legally) for serving the alcohol that the minor drank. See here's the thing, stupid is not an excuse of innocence.
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October 17th, 2009, 10:27 AM #25
Re: Woman who supplied gun that killed trooper charged
My dog "Ruger" is worried about the economy because Alpo is up to $3.00 a can. That's almost $21.00 in dog money.
Pray for our troops....and a little extra for our snipers.
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October 17th, 2009, 11:25 AM #26Grand Member
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October 17th, 2009, 11:38 AM #27Grand Member
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Re: Woman who supplied gun that killed trooper charged
"Oh and the liquor example you gave. If someone serves a person who is blatantly intoxicated and that person crashes/kills someone, yes they can be held responsible. It has been done in the past and I'm sure there will be cases in the future."
Correct, and this especially applys to bartenders!
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October 17th, 2009, 11:46 AM #28Grand Member
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Re: Woman who supplied gun that killed trooper charged
Absolutely, I was a bouncer at a bunch of places and every bartender used to get real nervous and would actually throw me some of their tips to make sure the person was put in a cab. When I was bouncing up at college it was nice because they had a free "saferider" cab that was easy to get people into. It was harder when working in Queens.
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October 17th, 2009, 12:13 PM #29
Re: Woman who supplied gun that killed trooper charged
"There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order."
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October 17th, 2009, 12:30 PM #30
Re: Woman who supplied gun that killed trooper charged
I think you're right. You can continue pass restrictions and laws to "prohibit" bad behavior, but those who want to do wrong, will. It only leaves in its wake an ever growing nuisance and financial burden on those who are acting responsibly.
This always end up the same - the majority paying the penalty for the actions of a small minority because the government is either unwilling or unable to prosecute those at the core of the problem.I am ashamed of those who represent me.
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