Clairton (Allegheny County) adopts missing handgun ordinance

[HiredGoon]

Clairton adopts missing handgun ordinance
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
By Matt Stroud

Clairton residents will face fines and jail time if they do not report lost and stolen handguns once a new ordinance takes effect.

Council unanimously voted last night to adopt an ordinance to require notification to authorities of lost or stolen handguns. It imposes penalties -- as much as $1,000 per violation and as long as 90 days in jail -- if individuals don't report a handgun lost or stolen within 72 hours of their disappearance.

State Rep. David K. Levdansky, D-Forward, told council the ordinance "sends a signal to both the public and to the general assembly that we need to get serious about the proliferation of handgun violence in our communities."

Mr. Levdansky said Clairton will be the 11th local municipality to adopt the ordinance.

Councilman Lamont Lewis voted yes for the ordinance "under protest," arguing that it has no provision for elderly individuals who may not keep track of their handguns.

"How can you cite someone that doesn't know something is missing from their home?" Mr. Lewis asked.

Mr. Levdansky argued that council should not make excuses for irresponsible gun ownership.

"If you have a gun," Mr. Levdansky said, "you should know where it is all the time."

Freelance writer Matt Stroud can be reached in care of suburbanliving@post-gazette.com.

[mojo]

Isn't the city of Pittsburgh currently going through the court system for their Missing/Lost gun ordinance?

[Paradigm]

Mr. Levdansky argued that council should not make excuses for irresponsible gun ownership.

"If you have a gun," Mr. Levdansky said, "you should know where it is all the time."

Hey, Mr. Levdansky...when you swear an oath to uphold the Constitution and laws of the Commonwealth, you should do it all the time!

If you can't uphold your oath, step down immediately.

[mcmcallister]

I agree with the resignation

[max384]

"If you have a gun," Mr. Levdansky said, "you should know where it is all the time."

As much as I don't like new gun legislation... You should know where your gun is at all times. Period. Anything less is just irresponsible.

The sentencing seems very stringent for not reporting your gun lost or stolen, but who wouldn't report it anyhow? There is absolutely no reason not to report a stolen firearm. I could see not wanting to report a lost gun because one might not want to 'look stupid' and is also probably hoping to find it instead of reporting it lost.... but a gun is not a set of keys. You don't just lose a gun... unless you're being irresponsible, that is. So, I really can't say I disagree with the ordinance....

[Paradigm]

As much as I don't like new gun legislation... You should know where your gun is at all times. Period. Anything less is just irresponsible.

The sentencing seems very stringent for not reporting your gun lost or stolen, but who wouldn't report it anyhow? There is absolutely no reason not to report a stolen firearm. I could see not wanting to report a lost gun because one might not want to 'look stupid' and is also probably hoping to find it instead of reporting it lost.... but a gun is not a set of keys. You don't just lose a gun... unless you're being irresponsible, that is. So, I really can't say I disagree with the ordinance....

This is wrong on three levels:

1. It violates preemption rules. Only the state can make gun laws.

2. It makes the gun owner the criminal. You just had your stuff stolen. If you don't make that call, you are now the criminal. And people have the right to report or NOT report something stolen. Why should this be different? Just because it's a gun? Really?

3. While it may be "responsible" to know where your guns are at all times, that is only wishful thinking at best. I have one gun. I do know where it is at all times. But what about people with five guns? 50 guns? 500 guns? I can't believe that people with collections tuck those guns in to bed each night and then check on them again before heading to work. What about if you go on vacation? The article says, "It imposes penalties -- as much as $1,000 per violation and as long as 90 days in jail -- if individuals don't report a handgun lost or stolen within 72 hours of their disappearance." It doesn't say when you noticed that a gun was stolen.

[mojo]

This is wrong on three levels:

1. It violates preemption rules. Only the state can make gun laws.

2. It makes the gun owner the criminal. You just had your stuff stolen. If you don't make that call, you are now the criminal. And people have the right to report or NOT report something stolen. Why should this be different? Just because it's a gun? Really?

3. While it may be "responsible" to know where your guns are at all times, that is only wishful thinking at best. I have one gun. I do know where it is at all times. But what about people with five guns? 50 guns? 500 guns? I can't believe that people with collections tuck those guns in to bed each night and then check on them again before heading to work. What about if you go on vacation? The article says, "It imposes penalties -- as much as $1,000 per violation and as long as 90 days in jail -- if individuals don't report a handgun lost or stolen within 72 hours of their disappearance." It doesn't say when you noticed that a gun was stolen.

+1

Also, responsible gun owners will do this on their own. Look at it this way: If your car was lost/stolen would you report it? Would most people report it? It's not legally required.

mojustsay'injo

[krystalzip]

This is wrong on three levels:

1. It violates preemption rules. Only the state can make gun laws.

2. It makes the gun owner the criminal. You just had your stuff stolen. If you don't make that call, you are now the criminal. And people have the right to report or NOT report something stolen. Why should this be different? Just because it's a gun? Really?

3. While it may be "responsible" to know where your guns are at all times, that is only wishful thinking at best. I have one gun. I do know where it is at all times. But what about people with five guns? 50 guns? 500 guns? I can't believe that people with collections tuck those guns in to bed each night and then check on them again before heading to work. What about if you go on vacation? The article says, "It imposes penalties -- as much as $1,000 per violation and as long as 90 days in jail -- if individuals don't report a handgun lost or stolen within 72 hours of their disappearance." It doesn't say when you noticed that a gun was stolen.

Also, didn't the courts in PA already rule that this isn't a legal ordinance when Philly tried to do it ?

That's why when Pittsburgh submitted it, the Mayer wouldn't sign it. He agreed with it, but was shown on the news saying he knew it wasn't a legal ordinance and therefore couldn't sign it.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[max384]

This is wrong on three levels:

1. It violates preemption rules. Only the state can make gun laws.

2. It makes the gun owner the criminal. You just had your stuff stolen. If you don't make that call, you are now the criminal. And people have the right to report or NOT report something stolen. Why should this be different? Just because it's a gun? Really?

3. While it may be "responsible" to know where your guns are at all times, that is only wishful thinking at best. I have one gun. I do know where it is at all times. But what about people with five guns? 50 guns? 500 guns? I can't believe that people with collections tuck those guns in to bed each night and then check on them again before heading to work. What about if you go on vacation? The article says, "It imposes penalties -- as much as $1,000 per violation and as long as 90 days in jail -- if individuals don't report a handgun lost or stolen within 72 hours of their disappearance." It doesn't say when you noticed that a gun was stolen.

I definitely do agree with you on preemption laws, and I had overlooked that fact when I was first reading/replying to the article.

As far as having a choice on whether or not to report a stolen handgun, I don't buy that. There is NO reason not to report a stolen gun. What if that gun is then used in a crime? You are now a suspect because it was your weapon that was used and you didn't report it. If you report it stolen, then you are in the clear. And I know, it could be used in a crime before you know it's missing and then you're still a possible suspect. But, it may look suspicious to many investigators if you told them you knew it was missing for a long time, but you just never reported it missing as opposed to you having just been burglarized. So, yes, it is different when a gun is stolen as opposed to money, jewelry, etc. It just is.

It does not matter how many guns someone has, they still have the responsibility to properly secure and keep track of them. It may be more difficult to do this if you have many guns, but it's part of the responsibility that comes with being a gun owner. I personally own over 30 firearms and I know where each and every one of them is at all times. I have each one of them in its specific place in my safe and I ensure they are all there every night. It only takes a quick scan to notice they are all there.

There should, however, be some exceptions. Such as if someone is on vacation, as you mentioned. And I already mentioned in the first post that I don't like the penalties, they are, IMO, too stringent.

I'm not worried about this law because I know it won't affect me or any responsible gun owners I know. If my firearms are lost/stolen, I will immediately notify the police anyhow.

[krystalzip]

As far as having a choice on whether or not to report a stolen handgun, I don't buy that. There is NO reason not to report a stolen gun.

I don't think any normal person would argue with you there. But do you need a law to tell you reporting a missing item of yours, especially a firearm? I sure don't. A law isn't going to make me jump to my feet and say "Oh my, I better get on that!!". I'm going to do the jumping anyway.

Part of the point (and I say part because there are many points) is that it puts the firearm owner in the seat of the criminal instead of upholding the laws that affect criminals.

If I allow some criminal to use my gun with or without this law to commit a crime, then there are already laws to deal with that. Why not enforce those?

I'm not worried about this law because I know it won't affect me or any responsible gun owners I know. If my firearms are lost/stolen, I will immediately notify the police anyhow.

So if it won't affect responsible gun owners, who will it affect? The criminal who already has enough laws to prosecute but we don't?

Also, are you not concerned about a law going into affect that is illegal to enforce? So when a law abiding citizen is somehow affected and does end up in front of a judge, will you as a tax payer be perfectly happy paying for a DA to stand there in court and argue an illegal law?