Your Pennsylvania Gun Rights ~Handy flyer to carry with you.

[mauser]

I will look it over more in the morning.

my first impression is that the pafoa logo should be lost. It will clear up space for more text and be forum generic.

I'll agree with that.
Any space that can be freed up should be utilized to increase the font size. I know this was mentioned about the first flyer a few years ago and I realize that there is a lot to fit into a limited space. Eliminating non-essential "fluff" and filler would be a great improvement. I printed one to see how it looks on paper rather than on a computer screen and even with my strongest reading glasses the print is way too tiny for me.

On a related note, I realize that my suggestion about clarification of law relating to carrying in an establishment that serves alcohol is redundant because you address my point elsewhere, but something that is a standout, like the red text not in a paragraph is going to draw the attention of people who suffer from "selective vision". (Very similar to married people with selective hearing). They'll see the part about being "allowed by law" but not the part about private property law if they aren't in the same short sentence.
There's almost too much to put into two pages, am I out of line to think of a 4 page brochure, front and back of two pieces of paper? Call them Part 1 and Part 2, simply to be able to fit more information and keep it readable.
(I know my eyes are getting worse with age but there are younger people than me with eyesight that's as bad as mine or worse).
If Part 1 is informative and easy to read I'm certain Part 2 would be in great demand by those who have read Part 1.

Just a thought.

[funsized]

The part about establishments that serve alcohol could use some clarification, (in my opinion).

So as not to give someone the idea that he (she) can carry in such an establishment just because Pennsylvania law says so.
(Laws typically don't permit things, but do restrict or prohibit things).

Current:
Carrying a firearm in establishments that sell or serve alcohol is allowed in Pennsylvania.


Proposed update:
Carrying a firearm in establishments that sell or serve alcohol is not prohibited by law in Pennsylvania, but may be prohibited by the management of the establishment.

(Any private property owner may prohibit certain things, including firearms.)

Mauser, I can agree with that. This was the original "callout" from the past flyer. As you mention in a later post, I do address the private property issue elsewhere, but I do think the wording should be changed.

How about simply:
Carrying a firearm in establishments that sell or serve alcohol is not prohibited by law in Pennsylvania.

my first impression is that the pafoa logo should be lost. It will clear up space for more text and be forum generic.

I don't necessarily agree that the flyer needs to be forum generic (unless that's the consensus of everyone, which I'm fine with), but to save space I can see your point. I'm not really worried about spacing at this point. I'm just trying to get the content right now. Things to add, things to delete, things to change... then I'll worry about spacing, font size, etc.

That leads me to Mauser's point about the font size. I haven't even bothered to print the document yet, because (as I stated in my OP) I haven't even finished playing with formatting (font size, which text on which page, callouts, color, pictures, etc.). Now, if the size of the font is prohibiting people from reading the document for editing purposes, I can certainly change it. After we get the content wrapped up, I can think about making more callouts, etc., especially for the "Facts Style" version.

Here's a thought... Do we even need the "legalese" page? It's nice to have so the reader understands that we aren't blowing smoke, but does anyone even read it? I even took out some other portions that I doubted would be applicable to the reader, and it still barely fits on a page.

Mauser suggested that we move to a 4 page (front and back of 2 pages) brochure. If it is meant to be passed out as one entity, this might make logistics a little more difficult for the person printing, as it would probably require stapling in the middle of the pages. It would also make pocketing more difficult. I know that the trifold makes it easy for me to store a whole stash in my purse. A bifold might be too large.

If it is meant to be 2 separate entities, that would be fine by me. I made 2 different drafts because I couldn't decide on the style for one handout.

Maybe if we made the first part eye-catching with the FAQs and pertinent facts, and the other part the legalese? As Mauser said, Part 1 could be intriguing, and Part 2 could have all of the references.

[mauser]

When you got to the part about "Do we even need the legalese?" I thought, here's a good place to divide into the second part. Legalese plus links, sources of information and advice, and possibly some advertisement? and/or contact info to gun friendly lawyers in various areas of the state.
I don't think stapling together would be necessary, or even a good idea as it would add bulk and make it more cumbersome. Part one and part two as two separate entities, clearly labeled for ease of identification would work for me. (I'd probably keep at least one of each in each of my cars, in my locker at work and possibly in my pocket). As it is I keep at least 2 copies of Pennsylvania Laws Relating To Firearms in my cars and a few more at home. When I talk to someone looking to come into the fold or looking for specific information I'll give them a copy, when I'm down to one copy, (other than my own), I'll stop into see my District Representative and pick up a few more. I don't mind having a little bit of "clutter" in my car, but some people refuse to have anything extra or unnecessary, those people would do well to carry a copy of Part one and have a copy of Part two handy enough that they could access it in short order.

[GrumpyBear]

Mauser, I can agree with that. This was the original "callout" from the past flyer. As you mention in a later post, I do address the private property issue elsewhere, but I do think the wording should be changed.

How about simply:
Carrying a firearm in establishments that sell or serve alcohol is not prohibited by law in Pennsylvania.


I don't necessarily agree that the flyer needs to be forum generic (unless that's the consensus of everyone, which I'm fine with), but to save space I can see your point. I'm not really worried about spacing at this point. I'm just trying to get the content right now. Things to add, things to delete, things to change... then I'll worry about spacing, font size, etc.

That leads me to Mauser's point about the font size. I haven't even bothered to print the document yet, because (as I stated in my OP) I haven't even finished playing with formatting (font size, which text on which page, callouts, color, pictures, etc.). Now, if the size of the font is prohibiting people from reading the document for editing purposes, I can certainly change it. After we get the content wrapped up, I can think about making more callouts, etc., especially for the "Facts Style" version.

Here's a thought... Do we even need the "legalese" page? It's nice to have so the reader understands that we aren't blowing smoke, but does anyone even read it? I even took out some other portions that I doubted would be applicable to the reader, and it still barely fits on a page.

Mauser suggested that we move to a 4 page (front and back of 2 pages) brochure. If it is meant to be passed out as one entity, this might make logistics a little more difficult for the person printing, as it would probably require stapling in the middle of the pages. It would also make pocketing more difficult. I know that the trifold makes it easy for me to store a whole stash in my purse. A bifold might be too large.

If it is meant to be 2 separate entities, that would be fine by me. I made 2 different drafts because I couldn't decide on the style for one handout.

Maybe if we made the first part eye-catching with the FAQs and pertinent facts, and the other part the legalese? As Mauser said, Part 1 could be intriguing, and Part 2 could have all of the references.

^^^^ In red above.

I think we need the legalize for the uninformed in uniform.

Also many thanks for undertaking this project !

[GrumpyBear]

When you got to the part about "Do we even need the legalese?" I thought, here's a good place to divide into the second part. Legalese plus links, sources of information and advice, and possibly some advertisement? and/or contact info to gun friendly lawyers in various areas of the state.
I don't think stapling together would be necessary, or even a good idea as it would add bulk and make it more cumbersome. Part one and part two as two separate entities, clearly labeled for ease of identification would work for me. (I'd probably keep at least one of each in each of my cars, in my locker at work and possibly in my pocket). As it is I keep at least 2 copies of Pennsylvania Laws Relating To Firearms in my cars and a few more at home. When I talk to someone looking to come into the fold or looking for specific information I'll give them a copy, when I'm down to one copy, (other than my own), I'll stop into see my District Representative and pick up a few more. [COLOR="Red"]I don't mind having a little bit of "clutter" in my car, but some people refuse to have anything extra or unnecessary, those people would do well to carry a copy of Part one and have a copy of Part two handy enough that they could access it in short order.

^^^^ Again in red.

Those people would do well to carry a copy of Part one and have a copy of Part two handy enough that they could access it in short order.

[normanvin]

One more thoughtabout the pagoa logo. You may want to contact danp about useing the logo. He is a bit protective about who or what represnts his site.

[gnbrotz]

One more thoughtabout the pagoa logo. You may want to contact danp about useing the logo. He is a bit protective about who or what represnts his site.

No "may want to" about it. The image is copyrighted, and use of it without his permission isn't legal.

[normanvin]

No "may want to" about it. The image is copyrighted, and use of it without his permission isn't legal.

As I thought.

[Mitch10mm]

Thanks for working on this gals and guys. Much appreciated.

[funsized]

No "may want to" about it. The image is copyrighted, and use of it without his permission isn't legal.

Hence why I am posting the drafts for everyone, including the mods, to help edit. The logo was on the original, so I don't see why danp wouldn't approve it, but I'm sure he will let me know if that is the case. This is a combined effort here, not just some guy or gal writing some misinformation on a piece of paper and passing it out.