Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Case law on using NFA firearms for self defense?

    Is there any case law on using NFA firearms for self defense? I am confused as to the legality of keeping a firearm not loaded in a vehicle when NOT going to or from place of purchase, service, target, etc. Can one keep a regular shotgun locked in the trunk unloaded at all times? The crimes code specified that it had to be going to and from specific points of related interests.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Case law on using NFA firearms for self defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaState View Post
    Is there any case law on using NFA firearms for self defense? I am confused as to the legality of keeping a firearm not loaded in a vehicle when NOT going to or from place of purchase, service, target, etc. Can one keep a regular shotgun locked in the trunk unloaded at all times? The crimes code specified that it had to be going to and from specific points of related interests.
    I can't offer any info on NFA registered weapons in self defense cases.

    As for the other part of your Q, you seem to two separate statutes mixed up.

    Handguns:
    Per 18Pa.C.S.6106 you can not have a "firearm", per the 18Pa.C.S.6102 definition, which is essentially handguns, SBS, SBR, in a vehicle (loaded or not) unless you meet one of the exceptions. Exceptions include LTCF, going to/from range, etc.

    Per 18Pa.C.S6106.1 Long guns can be transported/kept in a vehicle in Pa. without restriction other than the requirement that they be "unloaded". Per the 18Pa.C.S.6102 Note: A LTCF has no bearing on the long gun provisions.

    Does this help?
    _________________________________________

    danbus wrote: ...Like I said before, I open carry because you don't, I fight for all my rights because
    you won't, I will not sit with my thumb up my bum and complain, because you will.
    Remember Meleanie

  3. #3
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    Question Re: Case law on using NFA firearms for self defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot View Post
    I can't offer any info on NFA registered weapons in self defense cases.

    As for the other part of your Q, you seem to two separate statutes mixed up.

    Handguns:
    Per 18Pa.C.S.6106 you can not have a "firearm", per the 18Pa.C.S.6102 definition, which is essentially handguns, SBS, SBR, in a vehicle (loaded or not) unless you meet one of the exceptions. Exceptions include LTCF, going to/from range, etc.

    Per 18Pa.C.S6106.1 Long guns can be transported/kept in a vehicle in Pa. without restriction other than the requirement that they be "unloaded". Per the 18Pa.C.S.6102 Note: A LTCF has no bearing on the long gun provisions.

    Does this help?
    What would a small SMG like an MP5K, M11/9, or Micro UZI be considered? Would it be possible to carry one?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Case law on using NFA firearms for self defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by MEH View Post
    What would a small SMG like an MP5K, M11/9, or Micro UZI be considered? Would it be possible to carry one?
    Yes. Fullsized long guns do not require a license to carry openly or concealed. But must be unloaded in a vehicle.

    The concealable "firearms" that meet the dimensions of a "firearm" require a license to conceal or transport in a vehicle. Being full automatic, semiauto, pump, double barrel, singleshot, revolver, levergun, etc makes no difference - just the physical dimensions.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Case law on using NFA firearms for self defense?

    So with a license to carry firearms what does that allow me to do with a rifle and shotgun that are not considered firearms?

    Does the to and from limit only apply to those who transport "Firearms" without a valid PA LTCF?

    What can I do with SBR and SBS "Firearms" with a LCTF and also with non firearms i.e regular shotguns and such.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Case law on using NFA firearms for self defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaState View Post
    So with a license to carry firearms what does that allow me to do with a rifle and shotgun that are not considered firearms?
    Nothing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot View Post
    Note: A LTCF has no bearing on the long gun provisions.
    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaState View Post
    Does the to and from limit only apply to those who transport "Firearms" without a valid PA LTCF?
    Yes, firearms per the 6102 definition. An LTCF is an exception to 18Pa.C.S.6106, the statute that otherwise prohibits transport.

    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaState View Post
    What can I do with SBR and SBS "Firearms" with a LCTF and also with non firearms i.e regular shotguns and such.
    Again, long guns are unaffected by LTCF.
    SBS, SBR and handguns are all the same in regards to carry and the restrictions thereon imposed by 18Pa.C.S.6106
    _________________________________________

    danbus wrote: ...Like I said before, I open carry because you don't, I fight for all my rights because
    you won't, I will not sit with my thumb up my bum and complain, because you will.
    Remember Meleanie

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Case law on using NFA firearms for self defense?

    The only "long guns" that are affected by an LTCF are machine guns, or ones with NFA-regulated barrel/overall lengths, or DDs. You can carry a concealed 16"+ barreled non-machinegun rifle without an LTCF outside of Philadelphia. You'd probably need a trench coat, though.
    Any mission, any conditions, any foe at any range.
    Twice the mayhem, triple the force.
    Ten times the action, total hardcore.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Case law on using NFA firearms for self defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by General Geoff View Post
    The only "long guns" that are affected by an LTCF are machine guns, or ones with NFA-regulated barrel/overall lengths. You can carry a concealed 16"+ barreled non-machinegun rifle without an LTCF outside of Philadelphia. You'd probably need a trench coat, though.
    Machine gun makes no difference. The type of action has no bearing on what you can/cannot carry, or licensing requirements. Only physical dimensions of the gun matter.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Case law on using NFA firearms for self defense?

    "Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.
    You're right, knight. My mistake. I got the definition of firearm and "prohibited offensive weapon" mixed up.
    Any mission, any conditions, any foe at any range.
    Twice the mayhem, triple the force.
    Ten times the action, total hardcore.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Case law on using NFA firearms for self defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by MEH View Post
    What would a small SMG like an MP5K, M11/9, or Micro UZI be considered? Would it be possible to carry one?
    Sure, you could carry them ---- but...... do you really want the PD holding on to your 18K mp5k if you ever do use it to protect yourself. It's my guess that they would hold on to it until after your case was heard.

    Also, i can just hear it now, the prosecutor to the jury. Not only was this guy a crazy right wing extremist, he felt the need to carry a machine gun that is capable of shooting 750 rounds per minute. What kind of crazy do we have here - he shot poor ol Johnny (that the world treated unfairly all his life) 16 times with his full auto machine gun.

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