Why are hunting numbers down so low?

[Yoder]

I have posted this on other boards but due to seeing a reoccuring theme here I will post here also.

If a WCO/DWCO ever mistreats/cusses at or generaly has a bad disposition, call and report it to the supervisors. There is a formal complaint tracking system to deal with these issues. A WCO/DWCO should by all means do his job but there is no reason not to be professional while doing it.

Just as in any profession there are good and bad, and one action can unfairly label all the others that do the job.

I've never had anything like that, just illegal searches and having to prove I'm innocent instead of them proving I'm guilty.

Justify road blocks where they search my God Damn vehicle to see if my deer is properly tagged and my gun is not loaded? What kind of bullshit is that? Please tell my why this is legal and how it's not a complete violation of my Constitutional rights. There was no APB out for someone poaching that matched my description.

Justify Game Wardens entering our cabin FOR NO REASON and checking all of our guns.

Justify Game Wardens being able to search my tackle box to see if I have any kind of live bait while fishing in special reg area during trout season FOR NO REASON.

Why can they walk up to me and demand to see my I.D. and check my license FOR NO REASON? Police officers NEVER do that when I'm driving unless I break the law.

I seen these pricks fine two guys for driving their 70 yr old father up the power line so he could hunt one last year. Then the retard drove off up the power line at a ridiculous speed trashing his truck (That we pay for) like it was a Ford commercial.

My dad shot a deer one time off of rt 209 and I guess a bear ran across the rd not far from where we were Some idiot called the Game warden and reported we were shooting at a bear. When we came out of the woods there were about 6 of them all ready to draw on us and screaming at us to put our guns on our truck. I was 12, not exacty intimidating. They wouldn't even tell us what it was about, they just kept telling us to put our guns down. We got treated like criminals because some random person illegedly seen a bear somewhere near where shots were fired, what a bunch of dicks.

I've hunted in a lot of different states and I have never been treated like this anywhere else. That's why I hate them. Not all of them, I actually met 1 I liked. Just all of the others.

[jmanzini]

For me it comes down to the following:

Health and an aging population. As stated by others, the young either don't have an interest or aren't being introduced to it to replace them.

Gary Alt. He may be gone but but his personal beliefs are still the law. I don't like going and seeing nothing for days. Where I like to go, there was the same number of shots in a day that I used to hear in the first hour. There was a need for increased herd management, not decimation.

This brings me to Gary Alt part 2. I do not like the point system. If I want to take a four point, so what? Too much was given up to create trophy bucks. They were here before, but too many hunters did not want to "hunt" to find them.

A reduction in the amount of land to hunt. Leasing being one of the big reasons.

[Dredly]

For me it comes down to the following:

Health and an aging population. As stated by others, the young either don't have an interest or aren't being introduced to it to replace them.

Gary Alt. He may be gone but but his personal beliefs are still the law. I don't like going and seeing nothing for days. Where I like to go, there was the same number of shots in a day that I used to hear in the first hour. There was a need for increased herd management, not decimation.

This brings me to Gary Alt part 2. I do not like the point system. If I want to take a four point, so what? Too much was given up to create trophy bucks. They were here before, but too many hunters did not want to "hunt" to find them.

A reduction in the amount of land to hunt. Leasing being one of the big reasons.

Leasing isn't that big of an issue over on the east side of the state... most of hte hunting land is housing developments now but what do you expect when #1 and #2 growth counties for the past 10 years are Monroe and Pike

I shot a doe last year on the second saturday of rifle season, when I dropped it off at the butcher (Wacky Worm in Gilbert PA) there were 3 other deer there... there should have been dozens.

Deer harvests are way down in reality (unless you look at the PGC numbers)

[R.W.J]

I've never had anything like that, just illegal searches and having to prove I'm innocent instead of them proving I'm guilty.

Justify road blocks where they search my God Damn vehicle to see if my deer is properly tagged and my gun is not loaded? What kind of bullshit is that? Please tell my why this is legal and how it's not a complete violation of my Constitutional rights. There was no APB out for someone poaching that matched my description.

Road blocks are handled and operated just as DUI checkpoints are held.

Justify Game Wardens entering our cabin FOR NO REASON and checking all of our guns.

I am not sure why WCO's would be checking guns at a cabin, its not illegal to have a loaded gun in your cabin

Justify Game Wardens being able to search my tackle box to see if I have any kind of live bait while fishing in special reg area during trout season FOR NO REASON.

Why can they walk up to me and demand to see my I.D. and check my license FOR NO REASON? Police officers NEVER do that when I'm driving unless I break the law.

The last two comments have the same answer, Hunting/fishing/boating are a highly regulated activity. They are subject to more laws and regulations while in the act. Case law has upheld compliance checks. Same for truck drivers that can get pulled over by DOT Motor Vehicle Enforcement and check the truck for safety compliance.

I seen these pricks fine two guys for driving their 70 yr old father up the power line so he could hunt one last year. Then the retard drove off up the power line at a ridiculous speed trashing his truck (That we pay for) like it was a Ford commercial.

Not sure how they could fine two guys for this since there is usually only one vehicle operator. However if they did in fact drive a motor vehicle on a closed road they were in violation. regardless how noble the intent.

My dad shot a deer one time off of rt 209 and I guess a bear ran across the rd not far from where we were Some idiot called the Game warden and reported we were shooting at a bear. When we came out of the woods there were about 6 of them all ready to draw on us and screaming at us to put our guns on our truck. I was 12, not exacty intimidating. They wouldn't even tell us what it was about, they just kept telling us to put our guns down. We got treated like criminals because some random person illegedly seen a bear somewhere near where shots were fired, what a bunch of dicks.

I have no idea what information the officers had recieved so I cant comment on actions one way or the other. I also have no idea what "ready to draw on us" looks like, A sidearm is either drawn or its holstered

I've hunted in a lot of different states and I have never been treated like this anywhere else. That's why I hate them. Not all of them, I actually met 1 I liked. Just all of the others.

Since 1986 the law was recodified. WCO's have to have the same level as Police Officers for searches on homes and vehicles, Which means we have to have PC or consent.

I will say it again in any encounter if you feel you were treated unfairly, report it thu supervisors or Harisburg.

[jmanzini]

Deer harvests are way down in reality (unless you look at the PGC numbers)

Agreed, It's like having Acorn doing the counting.

[Dredly]

Agreed, It's like having Acorn doing the counting.

Except they openly admit that the numbers are really just made up as they instantly assume that more then 50% of deer killed are not reported at the ned of the season (on report cards, I'm guilty of this too). so if 100k deer are tagged and reported the PGC will report 215k - 250k even if the real number is only 150k.

Also they don't have an accurate estimate of animals killed on the road or animals killed by predators, animals not recovered by hunters, animals poached, or animals that die due to enviromental factors.

its really impossible for them to say "This many deer died this year" or even to guess at it... I wish I knew how they came up with permit allocations as well. for example WMU 3D this year got something like 35k doe permits... on a good day I'll see 5 or 6 throughout an 8 hour hunt, most of those are in the yards of homes as I drive to another location to hunt

[Yoder]

WCO,R.W.J

I've been through DUI check points and have never been asked to pull over and get out of my vehicle since they didn't suspect I was drinking. How do you suspect my rifle is loaded or I'm a poacher just by looking at me? It seems wrong to be able to search me or my belongings such as tackle box if you don't actually see me doing anything wrong. Why do fish and deer have more protection than people. If somebody kidnaps a child you can't just search people for no reason to try to find the kid but you can do it to save fish?

I still can't figure out why they came through and checked cabins. I believe they were checking if our guns matched our rositer since we had a pretty large group. This pissed me off more than anything, I have no idea how this was legal. I was in my teens, if I was older I would have told them to kiss my ass and come back with a police officer and a warrant. My dad just let them in and complied.

"Ready to Draw" Means exactly what it sounds like. Retention unsnapped and strong hand on the gun or hovering over the gun, depending on which Game Warden I was looking at. I'll admit, I was pretty intimidating at 5'2 110lbs when I was 12 so I can understand.

I'm sure for whatever stupid reason you have the right to do these things and treat people like they are guilty before proving or suspecting it, I just think it's bullshit. Things like this make people hate you. You can be as respectful as you want, but when you walk up to a guy in the woods hunting and ask to see his license he might get a little pissed off since you totally screwed up his spot and he wasn't doing anything wrong or suspicious. (Happened to my hunting buddy)

[R.W.J]

WCO,R.W.J

I've been through DUI check points and have never been asked to pull over and get out of my vehicle since they didn't suspect I was drinking. How do you suspect my rifle is loaded or I'm a poacher just by looking at me? It seems wrong to be able to search me or my belongings such as tackle box if you don't actually see me doing anything wrong. Why do fish and deer have more protection than people. If somebody kidnaps a child you can't just search people for no reason to try to find the kid but you can do it to save fish?

I still can't figure out why they came through and checked cabins. I believe they were checking if our guns matched our rositer since we had a pretty large group. This pissed me off more than anything, I have no idea how this was legal. I was in my teens, if I was older I would have told them to kiss my ass and come back with a police officer and a warrant. My dad just let them in and complied.

"Ready to Draw" Means exactly what it sounds like. Retention unsnapped and strong hand on the gun or hovering over the gun, depending on which Game Warden I was looking at. I'll admit, I was pretty intimidating at 5'2 110lbs when I was 12 so I can understand.

I'm sure for whatever stupid reason you have the right to do these things and treat people like they are guilty before proving or suspecting it, I just think it's bullshit. Things like this make people hate you. You can be as respectful as you want, but when you walk up to a guy in the woods hunting and ask to see his license he might get a little pissed off since you totally screwed up his spot and he wasn't doing anything wrong or suspicious. (Happened to my hunting buddy)

I explained the highly regulated activity. That is what gives WCO the authority to inspect for compliance. The other things you mentioned seem to have happened a while ago, If it was pre- 1986 then they could have come in to check rosters. But now require consent or a search warrant to search dwelling or vehicles and that is how it should be. However field checks to ensure compliance are 100% legal.