Crimping Problem

[reelmandan]

I'm new to reloading and the the board and was looking for some advise on a problem I'm having with producing an effective crimp on my 44 mag. I'm using RCBS carbide dies and my first reloads were with a 240 jacketed bullet. I had about 1/4 turn on the die for the roll crimp. At this point didn't know to check for the bullet backing out after a few rounds until reading some info in the web. After attempting to reload some Oregon Trail Lasercast bullets, I started checking this by not firing the 6th round in two cylinders (10 rounds fired for this test round). I found that the cast bullets were backing out a little so I increased the crimp, but started having other problems with the bullet being pushed further into the case by about .010. during crimping - will save this problem for another post though. When I went back to the jacketed bullet I was using about 1/2 to 3/4 turn on the crimp (more than before) and found two things happening...1) there is a very thin piece of brass that is separating from the end of casing after the crimp sometimes 2) the bullet backs out more than it did before, about .020 to .030. I have attached a photo of what the crimp looks like. Any help would be appreciated. Sorry for the long post.

[max384]

Do you have a taper crimp die? If so, try using the taper crimp. Just note that taper crimping can really hold a bullet in place pretty strong. So start with a small crimp and work your way up so that you don't have any over-pressure issues. These over-pressure issues are usually more of a problem with larger magnum rounds.... such as the .44 magnum.

EDIT: Oh, and welcome to the forum.

[reelmandan]

Thanks for the reply max384. Unfortunately I do not have TC die. My RCBS instructions state that TC would be marked on the die, which I don't. It does say that TC it typically used for auto loaders though.

Any idea why the end of my casing would have such a impression in it? Would this be an indication of over-crimping and have you ever heard of over-crimping not being as secure, i.e. too light or too hard of crimp can affect the ability of the crimp to hold?

Thanks again.

[NightRocker]

Thanks for the reply max384. Unfortunately I do not have TC die. My RCBS instructions state that TC would be marked on the die, which I don't. It does say that TC it typically used for auto loaders though.

Any idea why the end of my casing would have such a impression in it? Would this be an indication of over-crimping and have you ever heard of over-crimping not being as secure, i.e. too light or too hard of crimp can affect the ability of the crimp to hold?

Thanks again.

I use to reload for my 44mag, I tried crimping but it affected the accuracy. so I stopped crimping. I never had any problems with bullet seperation. I did have one question. Do you check and trim your case lenghts? before you set them up are they all the same size? Have you reamed the necks before you get to your seating prosess? I ask this because some times begginers over look these steps. I've missed a few in the beggining myself.

[reelmandan]

Nightrocker,

I trim my cases every time, and also ream and chamfer (outside of case) right after trimming the case.

How do you not get bullet seperation? Do you expand your case necks before seating your bullet? I guess I can't see how not crimping would be more secure at holding the bullet in place. But I will say this, it seemed that the bullet did not back out as much when I did not crimp as much.

Any additional insight would be appreciated. Thanks for the response.

[max384]

reelmandan,
I can't imagine over-crimping is causing your bullet to separate from the casing. Maybe you're over-expanding your cases before seating your bullet? Did you double-check that the bullets you're using are the right diameter?

The general rule for crimping is roll crimp for revolvers and taper crimp for autos. I prefer taper crimping for all my rounds and have had no problems with doing that so far. I suggested the taper crimp for you because you were having problems with the crimp you had and I've had no problems with doing that... then again, I don't load .44 magnum rounds.

[reelmandan]

max384,

My jacketed bullets are .429, and I expand just barely enough to set the bullet on the casing. I measured the end of the casing after flaring and it was aboutt .429, barely enough to let the bullet sit on casing until I pushed it up into the die. Everything I read about 44 mag seems to apply to roll crimping, and thats what came with the die. Don't have a TC crimp die for the 44. MY instructions state this is usually used in autoloaders - guess you don't see too may autoloaders in 44 mag, hence the RC die provided.

Speaking of bullet diameters, I also was loading .431 cast bullets, and they back out as well, but just not as far it seems, probably because of the taper in the crimping ring.

I think I'll go back and start over. I bought new brass and will crimp at a full turn on the crimping die. Hope this doesn't product too much pressure.

Does anybody know if seating the bullet lower that specified will cause higher pressures? I seat for about 1.61 on my 44 mag, but the cast bullets will usually decrease about .010 to about 1.51 after crimping?

Now if I can just find some primers.... only have four left

Thanks for all the advise.

[NightRocker]

It's tough to say why your not getting the same results. maybe the difference in the dies we use. I used the Lee standard .44 cal die. that may be the difference. You may want to try a different die.














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[pstew]

I looked at a couple of my 44 Mags as a comparison. Your's in the picture looks to be over crimped to me. As far as the bullet pull, I would not worry about the bullet pulling under recoil, as long as the bullet does not pull farther than the crimp groove will allow. the one in the picture did not. I think if you make them a little longer, closer to the bottom of the crimp groove, the pulling issue will go away.

[Dextrimental]

I'm new to reloading and the the board and was looking for some advise on a problem I'm having with producing an effective crimp on my 44 mag. I'm using RCBS carbide dies and my first reloads were with a 240 jacketed bullet. I had about 1/4 turn on the die for the roll crimp. At this point didn't know to check for the bullet backing out after a few rounds until reading some info in the web. After attempting to reload some Oregon Trail Lasercast bullets, I started checking this by not firing the 6th round in two cylinders (10 rounds fired for this test round). I found that the cast bullets were backing out a little so I increased the crimp, but started having other problems with the bullet being pushed further into the case by about .010. during crimping - will save this problem for another post though. When I went back to the jacketed bullet I was using about 1/2 to 3/4 turn on the crimp (more than before) and found two things happening...1) there is a very thin piece of brass that is separating from the end of casing after the crimp sometimes 2) the bullet backs out more than it did before, about .020 to .030. I have attached a photo of what the crimp looks like. Any help would be appreciated. Sorry for the long post.

Try to seat the bullet a little deeper. This should allow you to roll crimp into the cannelure a bit more. I think this would eliminate any issues of the bullet moving around while inside the casing.


Brad