Private Security powers?

[The Unknown 1087]

So I was at work today, and some of the anti gun people and I had a talk. One actually teachers police officers at the one training academy .

A private properties security, mall, ect. Can legally detain you, for ANYTHING if they figure out you have a weapon on you (of any kind) and its not allowed by their policy. Which I thought was bullshit, they have to ask you to leave first (correct).

Then we got into the debate if they are not LE officers, just security there is NO way I am giving them any of my information. I was informed if I did this, I could get "taken down" and then when they call the police get charged with DC, Resisting and so on. WTF is this?

Then we got into carrying on college campuses when I go visit friends, "if they find out, it doesn't matter if your a student or not, they can legally arrest you, and charge you with trespass, and dc, they DON'T have to ask you to leave first".

What's everyone think?

Can private security do anything besides ask you to leave? If you don't leave, then your screwed.

As for colleges I know, they can't do anything as well besides ask me to leave since I am not staff, or a student. Correct?

[tl_3237]

Firstly, as to loss prevention agents they can detain for theft but I find nowhere where they can detain/arrest otherwise beyond a citizens arrest:

18 Pa.C.S.A. § 3929 Retail theft



(a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of a retail theft if he:

(1) takes possession of, carries away, transfers or causes to be carried away or transferred, any merchandise displayed, held, stored or offered for sale by any store or other retail mercantile establishment with the intention of depriving the merchant of the possession, use or benefit of such merchandise without paying the full retail value thereof;

(2) alters, transfers or removes any label, price tag marking, indicia of value or any other markings which aid in determining value affixed to any merchandise displayed, held, stored or offered for sale in a store or other retail mercantile establishment and attempts to purchase such merchandise personally or in consort with another at less than the full retail value with the intention of depriving the merchant of the full retail value of such merchandise;

(3) transfers any merchandise displayed, held, stored or offered for sale by any store or other retail mercantile establishment from the container in or on which the same shall be displayed to any other container with intent to deprive the merchant of all or some part of the full retail value thereof; or

(4) under-rings with the intention of depriving the merchant of the full retail value of the merchandise.

(5) destroys, removes, renders inoperative or deactivates any inventory control tag, security strip or any other mechanism designed or employed to prevent an offense under this section with the intention of depriving the merchant of the possession, use or benefit of such merchandise without paying the full retail value thereof.


(b) Grading.--

(1) Retail theft constitutes a:

(i) Summary offense when the offense is a first offense and the value of the merchandise is less than $150.

(ii) Misdemeanor of the second degree when the offense is a second offense and the value of the merchandise is less than $150.

(iii) Misdemeanor of the first degree when the offense is a first or second offense and the value of the merchandise is $150 or more.

(iv) Felony of the third degree when the offense is a third or subsequent offense, regardless of the value of the merchandise.

(v) Felony of the third degree when the amount involved exceeds $2,000 or if the merchandise involved is a firearm or a motor vehicle.

(1.1) Any person who is convicted under subsection (a) of retail theft of motor fuel may, in addition to any other penalty imposed, be sentenced as follows:

(i) For a first offense, to pay a fine of not less than $100 nor more than $250.

(ii) For a second offense, to pay a fine of not less than $250 nor more than $500.

(iii) For a third or subsequent offense, to pay a fine of not less than $500, or the court may order the operating privilege of the person suspended for 30 days. A copy of the order shall be transmitted to the Department of Transportation.

(2) Amounts involved in retail thefts committed pursuant to one scheme or course of conduct, whether from the same store or retail mercantile establishment or several stores or retail mercantile establishments, may be aggregated in determining the grade of the offense.


(c) Presumptions.--Any person intentionally concealing unpurchased property of any store or other mercantile establishment, either on the premises or outside the premises of such store, shall be prima facie presumed to have so concealed such property with the intention of depriving the merchant of the possession, use or benefit of such merchandise without paying the full retail value thereof within the meaning of subsection (a), and the finding of such unpurchased property concealed, upon the person or among the belongings of such person, shall be prima facie evidence of intentional concealment, and, if such person conceals, or causes to be concealed, such unpurchased property, upon the person or among the belongings of another, such fact shall also be prima facie evidence of intentional concealment on the part of the person so concealing such property.


(c.1) Evidence.--To the extent that there is other competent evidence to substantiate the offense, the conviction shall not be avoided because the prosecution cannot produce the stolen merchandise.


(d) Detention.--A peace officer, merchant or merchant's employee or an agent under contract with a merchant, who has probable cause to believe that retail theft has occurred or is occurring on or about a store or other retail mercantile establishment and who has probable cause to believe that a specific person has committed or is committing the retail theft may detain the suspect in a reasonable manner for a reasonable time on or off the premises for all or any of the following purposes: to require the suspect to identify himself, to verify such identification, to determine whether such suspect has in his possession unpurchased merchandise taken from the mercantile establishment and, if so, to recover such merchandise, to inform a peace officer, or to institute criminal proceedings against the suspect. Such detention shall not impose civil or criminal liability upon the peace officer, merchant, employee, or agent so detaining.

[The Unknown 1087]

Well for retail I understand, but they're talking about them just coming up and not ask you to leave, just detain you until they call the police because you have a holster weapon or whatnot.

[emsjeep]

So I was at work today, and some of the anti gun people and I had a talk. One actually teachers police officers at the one training academy .

A private properties security, mall, ect. Can legally detain you, for ANYTHING if they figure out you have a weapon on you (of any kind) and its not allowed by their policy. Which I thought was bullshit, they have to ask you to leave first (correct).

Then we got into the debate if they are not LE officers, just security there is NO way I am giving them any of my information. I was informed if I did this, I could get "taken down" and then when they call the police get charged with DC, Resisting and so on. WTF is this?

Then we got into carrying on college campuses when I go visit friends, "if they find out, it doesn't matter if your a student or not, they can legally arrest you, and charge you with trespass, and dc, they DON'T have to ask you to leave first".

What's everyone think?

Can private security do anything besides ask you to leave? If you don't leave, then your screwed.

As for colleges I know, they can't do anything as well besides ask me to leave since I am not staff, or a student. Correct?

This story is in a thread somewhere, but I'll pass it on again. At a certain PA College I know of a student's friend who was visiting and, stupidly, informed his friend that he was carrying. That friend told someone else who called security who called the Police. The local PD disarmed the subject and escorted him from the property, disassembled his firearm and wrote him for DC. No threats had been made, there was no scene or disagrement. The man had a valid LTCF. Whether anything came of those charges, I do not know. However, the guys picture is posted in the security office with orders to call the PD if he is seen on or near the property. My guess is that any competent judge would dismiss that completely at the drop of a hat, but it will be on the record and he will be out the court time and money.

[mak47]

As someone who is not very familiar with the legal powers that private security personnel may or may not have, I would advise your friend to stop telling people they can detain anyone for any reason.

From my perspective, and I'm sure others may have a similar view, a security guard at...let's say Wal-Mart...can ask me to leave, or even to search my bags, but if I've done nothing wrong I can see no reason why I need to pay much attention to them.

If one tried to "take me down" because they noticed I was armed, I would be more likely to think they were assaulting me and might be inclined to defend myself from that assault.

I'm not trying to come off as a hothead or anything, but if I'm just in a store or a mall minding my own business and somebody comes rushing towards me in attack mode I'm not looking for their identification--I'm going to take defensive measures. I'd be willing to bet I'm not the only one who would react this way either.

If your friend is advising security trainees that they can detain anyone for any reason, and then to "take them down" if they don't comply, I'm truly concerned that one of these students may get themselves hurt one day.

[reverserboy]

If one tried to "take me down" because they noticed I was armed, I would be more likely to think they were assaulting me and might be inclined to defend myself from that assault.

Me too.

--I'm going to take defensive measures. I'd be willing to bet I'm not the only one who would react this way either.

No...you're not.
I know a guy who would fall when he was grabbed & claim the rent a cop injured his back or neck.

If your friend is advising security trainees that they can detain anyone for any reason, and then to "take them down" if they don't comply, I'm truly concerned that one of these students may get themselves hurt one day.

Yep....hurt,sued or charged with a crime and/or employer sued.

[NY Refugee]

This again goes to the I am a "___________" (fill in the blank) and there for know the "law". These people get very tiring after a while. Anyone can tell you anything but without back up proof it means poop.
So when I have someone tell me this I always ask for some corroborating material. Show me a badge and ID, so me the law, tell me where you teach at, etc.... and as anyone who has been around here for a few days or more, many cops don't even know the law.
The I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the internet, does not cut it.
good job to the OP for being skeptical of the "teacher"

[ALS]

How many act 120 Police officers are not completely up to speed on every aspect of criminal law? And this I'm the smartest guy in the room is teaching marginal law to people who actually think he knows what he is talking about.

[The Unknown 1087]

Your friend is full of something, and it doesn't smell good.

Private security can detain for certain crimes like retail theft and felonies, but can not arrest you. Having a weapon on you changes nothing in regards to thier detaining "authority".

Many security guards including ACT235 are just window dressing to make the sheeple feel good. I worked armed security at South Side Works in Pittsburgh, and our boss there told us to never get involved physically unless it was a matter of life or death, because they were afraid of civil cases.

Thats what I was thinking, and there is no law saying I MUST provide my name to security.

[Swarner793]

I was a Supervisor for a College Security Dept. for nearly five years. I am now in Retail Security/Loss Prevention and have been for 12 years. I own a Private Detective Agency, for over ten years, that provides armed Security Specialists. I tell you all this only to qualify my professional opinion, YOUR FRIEND IS FULL OF SHIT! Sorry, did not mean to yell. I do not know what institution he "teaches" at, but I would suggest to him not to quit his day job. He is teaching people some shaky shit. I would understand if you would rather not give the name of the "academy", but I sure would like to know

Be safe (and know your limitations).

Scott