Flying to North Carolina

[AKross]

Hello Everyone,

I am heading to North Carolina for a week and I was thinking of taking my little .38 Special with me. My problem is that I have never done this before so I need some advice and some opinions on a few things.

1) I will have to fly from a small airport, and back through a big airport. I have a hard case with locks, can I just put it in my checked bag (obviously have to notify)? How bad is this whole check process when I do this?

2) This is a business trip and there is a big sign on the front of the door prohibiting firearms. During the work hours I will need to keep my firearm somewhere. Is having it in a locked case in a locked hotel room legal and what is your opinion on this?

3) I have my PA LTCF and NC offers reciprocity, do I need to register with NC authorites? I have read the different rules on the handgun laws website, is there anything special you think I should know if I bring along a firearm? Also are hollow points legal in NC?

4) I start off Continental and switch to US Airways halfway. Will this cause issues?

The TSA and airline info is a bit confusing so I am looking for some experienced fliers who have done this before. I will be spending most of my time either at work, the hotel, or at restaurants (cannot carry in NC seeing as every average - nice restaurants serve alcohol). Hotel is not cheap and has security. Should I deal with all of the hassle with this in mind?

[Pro2A]

Hello Everyone,

I am heading to North Carolina for a week and I was thinking of taking my little .38 Special with me. My problem is that I have never done this before so I need some advice and some opinions on a few things.

1) I will have to fly from a small airport, and back through a big airport. I have a hard case with locks, can I just put it in my checked bag (obviously have to notify)? How bad is this whole check process when I do this?

Just declare that you have a firearm to check with your luggage. A TSA agent will come over and check that it's properly locked up. You zip up your luggage and off you go. Or something along those lines. I hear it's not that big of a hassle. Here let me Google that for you

2) This is a business trip and there is a big sign on the front of the door prohibiting firearms. During the work hours I will need to keep my firearm somewhere. Is having it in a locked case in a locked hotel room legal and what is your opinion on this?

Rental car, hotel... or concealed means concealed :-)

3) I have my PA LTCF and NC offers reciprocity, do I need to register with NC authorites? I have read the different rules on the handgun laws website, is there anything special you think I should know if I bring along a firearm? Also are hollow points legal in NC?

This is NC not NJ... I think you're all set. You may want to check out www.handgunlaw.us to see what is off limits in NC tho.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/northcarolina.pdf

4) I start off Continental and switch to US Airways halfway. Will this cause issues?

Not unless they loose your luggage. Your luggage wont be tagged with a bright orange sing that says "gun inside" or anything, so no worries here. It's just regular luggage.

The TSA and airline info is a bit confusing so I am looking for some experienced fliers who have done this before. I will be spending most of my time either at work, the hotel, or at restaurants (cannot carry in NC seeing as every average - nice restaurants serve alcohol). Hotel is not cheap and has security. Should I deal with all of the hassle with this in mind?

Personally I'd still bring it. Thats just me tho.

[mrjam2jab]

Suggest reading the NC Firearms Laws

Lot of good info here

[Kb! Bob]

Follow state and local LAWS concerning where and when you can carry, but IMHO when its legal to carry but they post a No Weapons sign, I always remember "concealed means concealed". Just my opinion, certainly not advice.

[GHF]

Having traveled a number of times, here's how I go at it:

1. Review http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...rial_1666.shtm to understand TSA policies and procedures. Have a copy with you when you reach the airport.
2. Put the unloaded weapon(s) in a lockable hard-sided case with locks only you have the keys/combination to open. TSA locks are not allowed.
3. Steps that will make it easier to show that the weapon is unloaded - especially when x-rayed.
   
   • If the weapon is a:
     
     • semi-automatic
       
       • lock the slide open
       • put a cable tie through the barrel and out the breach to show that the chamber is empty
     • revolver, flip the cylinder out
   • Do not put the magazines in this locked case with the gun(s):
     
     • it invites questions about them being loaded
     • if the gun case is "liberated" from the checked bag by a Criminal Entrepreneur, the lack of magazines frustrates the "Liberator", since the weapon is now initially a single shot one
4. Check the airline(s) you are flying on:
   
   • To determine if the ammo
     
     • MUST be in boxes (plastic reload boxes work)
     • can fly in loaded magazines
   • If loaded magazines are permitted, make sure the pouches fully cover the magazines
   • The round(s) from the chamber(s)/cylinder(s) must be in a box, not loose
5. Secure and protect magazines (separately from the weapon) and ammunition boxes from possible damage.
6. Put the lockable hard-sided case with the weapon and the ammo/magazines into a cheap, non-descript bag - with clear labeling outside and inside - for checking in.
   
   • If possible, develop a way to attach - in a lockable way - the hard-sided case to the piece of luggage it has been placed into.
   • The labeling should be limited to:
     
     • Your Name
     • Your Cell Phone - if you have one, or your home phone if you do not
     • Your personal email address - if you have one
     • =NO ADDRESSES, JOB TITLES, ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD BE INDICATED
7. Other stuff - like shampoo, mouthwash, toothpaste, etc, could be in this checked bag also.
8. Have the rules for the airline in hand when you check this non-descript bag at the airport.
9. Make sure you have the keys/combinations to the lockable hard-sided case with you and you alone (Per Federal Regulations 49CFR § 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals - http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...2.10.6&idno=49) at all times. You will have to open the lockable hard-side case:
   
   • to demonstrate to the airline that the weapon(s) are not loaded at check in (a signed form/tag indicating that will go in with the weapon(s))
   • if the TSA wants to see
10. Have the serial number(s) and descriptions of your weapons on you, so if they "disappear" you can report the loss/theft immediately to the:
    
    • airline
    • FAA Regional Office
    • *ATF Regional Office

Other things to consider:

1. Check www.handgunlaw.us and/or http://apps.carryconcealed.net/packngo/index.php to determine:
   
   • If you can possess the weapon at all your stops
   • Where and how you can carry at all your stops
   • What are the deadly force rules in each state you are visiting
2. Have a copy of the Don Young Transportation Letter on hand - http://www.anjrpc.org/DefendingYourR...s%20letter.pdf. This covers changing modes of travel - car to plane to car - in a single journey.

[scampbell3]

Hello Everyone,

I am heading to North Carolina for a week and I was thinking of taking my little .38 Special with me. My problem is that I have never done this before so I need some advice and some opinions on a few things.

1) I will have to fly from a small airport, and back through a big airport. I have a hard case with locks, can I just put it in my checked bag (obviously have to notify)? How bad is this whole check process when I do this?

2) This is a business trip and there is a big sign on the front of the door prohibiting firearms. During the work hours I will need to keep my firearm somewhere. Is having it in a locked case in a locked hotel room legal and what is your opinion on this?

3) I have my PA LTCF and NC offers reciprocity, do I need to register with NC authorites? I have read the different rules on the handgun laws website, is there anything special you think I should know if I bring along a firearm? Also are hollow points legal in NC?

4) I start off Continental and switch to US Airways halfway. Will this cause issues?

The TSA and airline info is a bit confusing so I am looking for some experienced fliers who have done this before. I will be spending most of my time either at work, the hotel, or at restaurants (cannot carry in NC seeing as every average - nice restaurants serve alcohol). Hotel is not cheap and has security. Should I deal with all of the hassle with this in mind?

By all means, if you carry, always carry. The TSA/Airline regulations may seem confusing, but it is not that bad. If you are checking a firearm, you will need to add additional time at the check in counter. I generally allow myself an additional 30-45 minutes. This is due to the fact that not all counter agents are familiar or trained in the firearms declaration procedures.

A few tips. Do not use a plastic gun case. I use a padded steel case with a cam style lock. If the case you are using can be pryed open at any corner, the TSA will not allow it to be checked. Look for a case that is TSA Approved. I also carry a smaller metal locking case for ammuntion for the carry weapon. The general rule here is that the primers must be covered or otherwise protected. Place your ammuniton in the facotry box, then place the box in a small locking case. Hollow point ammunition is not illegal in NC. That only applies to the Peoples Republic of New Jersey.

After the check in, retain the keys to the lock at all times. If you are called out by TSA for additional screening, do not surrender the keys to the agent. Inform the agent that you will not turn over control of the keys and you are more then happy to accompany the agent for additional screening. (This has not yet happened to me though) As far as changing airlines, Once you have checked your firearm, there is not anything else that needs to be done by you until you have claimed your baggage. If you have to claim your baggage, and recheck in with a different airline, you will have to re-declare your firearm to the next airline check in.

I was a 10 year resident of NC, I have been through the NC CCW process, and carried. NC is a traditional open carry state, and has General Law preemption, but some localities do have different laws regarding open carry. For a visiting traveler, concealed carry is the best if you are not aware of all the specific laws in a general location in NC.

In NC, you do not need to inform the local government of either yourself or your firearm. But you MUST inform a LEO that you have a concealed carry weapon if you are stopped, (traffic stop or similar) There are some places that are off limits
Government Buildings
Banks
Schools (ALL)
Anywhere that admission is charged for entrance
Police/Correctional facilities
Public demonstrations/rallies
Any restaurant that serve alcohol.
Any business that is posted "No Firearms" (this is debatable)
Since you will run into posted places, keep your locking case with you in the car. This is what I do personally, since I do not leave anything other them my clothes and toothbrush in the hotel rooms while I am out.

Please go to www.handgunlaw.us and look up NC laws.

Otherwise, carrying in NC is not that bad, but you will find that the southern states tend to have more restrictions and laws on firearms then we have here in the northern states.

Hope this helps

[Franky4Fingers]

Just drive down, its only a 7-8 hour drive. By the time you drive to the airport, mess around at the airport 2+ hours early, fly from one airport to the other, then to NC and get all your stuff and in your car you could have driven there under your own terms, not worrying about the hassle.

I don't fly in a plane if the trip is a 12 hour drive or less...just not worth the hassle and expense, but that's me.

[mrjam2jab]

I was a 10 year resident of NC, I have been through the NC CCW process, and carried. NC is a traditional open carry state, and has General Law preemption, but some localities do have different laws regarding open carry. For a visiting traveler, concealed carry is the best if you are not aware of all the specific laws in a general location in NC.

How does that work? Thats not what it says in

"§ 14-409.40. State preemption of local regulation.
GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NORTH CAROLINA 1995
Page 2 HOUSE BILL 879 version 3
1 (a) It is declared by the General Assembly that the regulation of firearms is
2 properly an issue of general, statewide concern, and that the entire field of regulation of
3 firearms is preempted from regulation by local governments except as provided by this
4 section.
5 (b) No county or municipality, by zoning or by ordinance, resolution, or other
6 enactment, shall regulate in any manner the possession, ownership, discharge, storage,
7 transport, carrying, transfer, sale, purchase, licensing, or registration of firearms, firearms
8 ammunition, components of firearms, dealers in firearms, or dealers in handgun
9 components or parts.

[scampbell3]

How does that work? Thats not what it says in

This is were firearms laws in NC get a little confusing. In a document produced by the NCAG.

North Carolina General Statute § 14-415.23 provides that no political subdivisions,
boards, or agencies of the state nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation,
town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules,
or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government
may, however, adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying
a concealed handgun in local government buildings, their appurtenant premises, and parks.

NC Law is full of contradictions. This allows for general preemption, and yet allows for localities to restrict in certain areas.

Here is the next nugget of contradiction. This law has been on the books, and has been used against open carrying:

6. Going Armed To The Terror Of The People
By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm
himself/herself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying
others, and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others. The
N.C. Supreme Court states that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for
purposes of this offense. Therefore, persons are cautioned as to the areas they frequent
with firearms.


NC Code Chapter 14 § 160A.189, a city may by ordinance ... regulate the display of firearms on the streets, sidewalks, alleys, or other public property.

While the word "display" does not appear to be defined in the Code, some localities in NC have adopted, or are considering adopting ordinances like the city of Chapel Hill's which restrict the open carry of handguns.

This was challenged in State v. Fennell (1989) and the NC Court of Appeals upheld previous NC court decisions stating that the guarantee of an individual right to openly bear arms in the NC constitution was subject to reasonable regulation declaring that "a pistol shall not be under a certain length."

Bottom line...NC has "General Law' preemption, however it lacks the language and strength that states like, PA, VA and the like enjoy, by invalidating any laws/ordinances on the books prior to passage. The intent my be to make them invalid, but the General Law preemption lacks the language to do so.

I would like to know more, and if things have changed in the last 5 years since I moved out of the state. I would love to know.

Chip

[scampbell3]

Here is the entire preemption law from the North Carolina General Assembly
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascript...statutestoc.pl
Chapter 14.

Criminal Law.

SUBCHAPTER I. GENERAL PROVISIONS.

Article 1.

Felonies and Misdemeanor

§ 14‑415.23. Statewide uniformity.

It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe a uniform system for the regulation of legally carrying a concealed handgun. To insure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules, or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun, in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c), on local government buildings, their appurtenant premises, and parks. (1995, c. 398, s. 1.)

§ 14‑409.40. Statewide uniformity of local regulation.

(a) It is declared by the General Assembly that the regulation of firearms is properly an issue of general, statewide concern, and that the entire field of regulation of firearms is preempted from regulation by local governments except as provided by this section.

(a1) The General Assembly further declares that the lawful design, marketing, manufacture, distribution, sale, or transfer of firearms or ammunition to the public is not an unreasonably dangerous activity and does not constitute a nuisance per se and furthermore, that it is the unlawful use of firearms and ammunition, rather than their lawful design, marketing, manufacture, distribution, sale, or transfer that is the proximate cause of injuries arising from their unlawful use. This subsection applies only to causes of action brought under subsection (g) of this section.

(b) Unless otherwise permitted by statute, no county or municipality, by ordinance, resolution, or other enactment, shall regulate in any manner the possession, ownership, storage, transfer, sale, purchase, licensing, or registration of firearms, firearms ammunition, components of firearms, dealers in firearms, or dealers in handgun components or parts.

(c) Notwithstanding subsection (b) of this section, a county or municipality, by zoning or other ordinance, may regulate or prohibit the sale of firearms at a location only if there is a lawful, general, similar regulation or prohibition of commercial activities at that location. Nothing in this subsection shall restrict the right of a county or municipality to adopt a general zoning plan that prohibits any commercial activity within a fixed distance of a school or other educational institution except with a special use permit issued for a commercial activity found not to pose a danger to the health, safety, or general welfare of persons attending the school or educational institution within the fixed distance.

(d) No county or municipality, by zoning or other ordinance, shall regulate in any manner firearms shows with regulations more stringent than those applying to shows of other types of items.

(e) A county or municipality may regulate the transport, carrying, or possession of firearms by employees of the local unit of government in the course of their employment with that local unit of government.

(f) Nothing contained in this section prohibits municipalities or counties from application of their authority under G.S. 153A‑129, 160A‑189, 14‑269, 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, 14‑277.2, 14‑415.11, 14‑415.23, including prohibiting the possession of firearms in public‑owned buildings, on the grounds or parking areas of those buildings, or in public parks or recreation areas, except nothing in this subsection shall prohibit a person from storing a firearm within a motor vehicle while the vehicle is on these grounds or areas. Nothing contained in this section prohibits municipalities or counties from exercising powers provided by law in declared states of emergency under Article 36A of this Chapter.

(g) The authority to bring suit and the right to recover against any firearms or ammunition marketer, manufacturer, distributor, dealer, seller, or trade association by or on behalf of any governmental unit, created by or pursuant to an act of the General Assembly or the Constitution, or any department, agency, or authority thereof, for damages, abatement, injunctive relief, or any other remedy resulting from or relating to the lawful design, marketing, manufacture, distribution, sale, or transfer of firearms or ammunition to the public is reserved exclusively to the State. Any action brought by the State pursuant to this section shall be brought by the Attorney General on behalf of the State. This section shall not prohibit a political subdivision or local governmental unit from bringing an action against a firearms or ammunition marketer, manufacturer, distributor, dealer, seller, or trade association for breach of contract or warranty for defect of materials or workmanship as to firearms or ammunition purchased by the political subdivision or local governmental unit. (1995 (Reg. Sess., 1996), c. 727, s. 1; 2002‑77, s. 1.)


These are the current law and language from the North Carolina General Statues. Unlike PA's preemption law, there is no language that invalidates restrictions on open carry, or openly displayed firearms that localities had enacted prior to 1995. Note: Chapel Hill does have a open carry restriction, and it is not effected by this preemption, or rather uniformity statute.
Open carry in unincorporated and rural areas generally will not have these restrictions, but larger incorporated towns and city's may, and some do, have these restrictions.

Since I am not a lawyer, this is my view of the statues, I could be wrong. But I have left NC, and I am enjoying an area with less confusing and FEWER firearms laws.

Chip