Dauphin County Parks - Preemption Violation

[HBGMarine]

Greetings and salutations PAFOA members!

I'm planning on taking the little man and the dog to enjoy one of the Dauphin County parks soon and remembered coming across their website recently which says that they don't allow the carrying of a variety of objects; pistols and firearms included. I decided to send an email to the Daupin County Commissioners, Jeffery Haste, Dominic "Nick" DiFrancesco, and George Hartwick III, to see what they have to say about the matter.

Below is a copy of the email and I'll update the thread as things progress. Wish me luck

----- Original Message -----
From: [HBGMarine]
To: jhaste@dauphinc.org, NDiFrancesco@dauphinc.org, GHartwick@dauphinc.org
Cc: [HBGMarine]
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:36:22 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Dauphin County Park Rules - Preemption Violation


Dear Commissioners Haste, DiFrancesco & Hartwick,

Good afternoon, My name is [HBGMarine] and I am a resident of Dauphin County. I am writing this email to bring to your attention a Dauphin County Parks rule that appears to be in violation of state law. Dauphin County Ordinance # 2-95, Section 1, Rule 14(1) states "No person shall carry a knife upon their person having a blade of 3 inches or longer in length, or have possession of, or discharge a BB gun, air rifle, pistol, firearm, bow and arrow, or any other type of lethal weapon in any park, except on facilities expressly designate or provided for that purpose.".


It is my understanding that the firearms prohibition portion of this rule is in violation of Title 18, Chapter 61, subchapter A (otherwise known as The Uniform Firearms Act) specifically subsection 6120 which states: "General rule: No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this commonwealth.”

The preemption statute I quoted was passed in 1995. I am unsure when the County park rules were created, and understand that it may have been in place before 1995, explaining why it may have been overlooked. However, there was no grandfathering of existing limitations, so in any event, the rule as it stands today is improper and invalid.

I know some people might want to know why someone would want to carry a firearm in the County parks, and the answer may be as simple as they carry a firearm daily. I know I do. But that question is not really the issue. The preemption statute I quoted is very important for Pennsylvanians that legally carry a firearm in that it removes the problem of a traveling citizen running afoul of a myriad of local laws prohibiting where you can and can not carry a firearm. In other words, licensed or otherwise legal carriers of firearms in Pennsylvania can carry everyplace not prohibited by state law.

Of particular interest to the County is that since this rule is unenforceable, there could be negative consequences should an unknowing person, or even one choosing to ignore the rule knowing it is null and void happen to be cited or otherwise confronted. If a police officer were to “enforce” such rule or ordinance, wrongful arrest and abuse of office charges could be laid on the officer, the police department and the county – not an inexpensive proposition.

I respectfully ask that the County please look into this matter. If you have any questions regarding this matter or if there is anyway that I can be of assistance, please do not hesistate to contact me and I will avail myself. I thank you all for your time and look forward to your follow up on this request.



Respectfully,

[HBGMarine]


(1) http://www.dauphincounty.org/content...view-and-rule/

[4XLT]

where ya gonna be man? i'm about to head for for a quick bite i could meet up with ya

[HBGMarine]

where ya gonna be man? i'm about to head for for a quick bite i could meet up with ya

I'm at work for the next few hours. By "soon" I meant in a few days but I appreciate the offer.

[4XLT]

lol cool man anytime since i am still looking for work.

[UnrealStunner]

+1 Rep


I seen the same thing where I fish at the Dock Street Dam and can't understand why they have it posted at Harrisburg River Front Parks..

Here is a small Story I posted in the Dauphin Boards on this site and why I want out and got a New gun..

As many of you know there has been a major rise in crime in Harrisburg as of lately, with gang violence and all. I had my first semi run in EVER last night.

As a side note, I have had a LTCF for many years now, and routinely carry. Especially since I work in Harrisburg, and the crime has just started to go through the ceiling with all these wannabe thugs roaming the streets.

Last night I went out with my pregnant Wife, my best friend, and another female friend of mine. After we ate a really nice dinner at El Sol, we decided to take a walk on Front Street. As we walked down by the hotel there by Shipoke, we decided to walk down right along side of the river on the walkway that spans the entire length of Front Street. We were walking and nothing was even around, except for the geese and ducks that live there. Later down the walkway, we all were walking forward talking, and my friend had his head down as he was walking forward. There were these two not so friendly looking individuals walking towards us, and I noticed they were looking at us, and saying things to each other. They started walking right towards my friend, once he looked up and made eye contact with them, they immediately made almost a 90 degree turn to the left and tried to play it off. As we walked further down the walkway, I noticed they were right behind us, about 5-8 paces back. Weird, they were walking the opposite direction, now are right behind us. Up on the right there was a staircase, that led up to Front Street, so I suggested that we go up to Front Street and figure out what we want to do the rest of the evening. I let the ladies go in front of us, and I was the last to go up the steps. These guys are now walking up the steps behind us, probably 2 steps back. The steps were pretty steep, and as we were walking up them, I heard the one guy say "gun" to the other guy. I turned over my shoulder and they were now walking down the steps in the opposite direction.

Please excuse me if I'm a little all over the place in this story, because I'm still pretty pissed off over the whole thing. I've never been in a situation like that. What the hell is it with people? Has anyone been in a similar situation before?

Harrisburg has became so bad in the past year that I don't want to ever go into the city.

To clarify, I have an Uncle Mike's sidekick for summer carry, and was carrying in the pants in the small of the back.

psnyder Hello The Name here is Chris...

I was in the very same place and it happened to Me This is Kinda Freaking Me out but here is My story.

Flash Back date is Ummm about Sept or Oct 2008

I Love to fish at the Doc Street Dam under the bridge (RT83) 2 Black Males One 5'8" 145lbs. other 6'2" about 220lbs. it was very dark about 9:30pm.

I was having a great day getting some Killer Walleye and was hoping to catch a Striped Bass I always fish right were the water falls over the dam thats where the fish set =) anyways Im fishing and doom over My should hear ( There standing Right at the Water Treatment Plant Biulding ) and I see 2 dudes talking & scoping Me out. I fill im out in the open too much and thats not such a great filling when its 2 on 1.

Now just so We understand eachother here
There is nothing wrong with 2 black males watching one white dude fish
in Harrisburg this was one of them things that you just knew was not right at all. I fished there for over 30 years and seen many people over My life there that watched me fish This was not one of them normal watch kinda People. I knew deep inside they where looking to Steal/Rob/Cheat for a Quick 13 Street Fix if you know what I mean...

I fished a few more mins and I started wondering if they where up there looking to bust into My truck so (Unarmed) I get ready to leave this takes Me about 3-4 mins to gather My Stuff I have no hands to fight since I take alot of fishing stuff when I do fish so I opened up My Tackle Box and get My long Dry My Hands Towel out and I found a Nice round Rock down were the rocks are and I rapped the rock into the towel. I walked up the ramp to the parking area and boom they they are giving My a good look over one asked for the time when the other was looking at My back area (looking for a gun?) I got to My truck and I think they were looking to move in I dropped all the fishing stuff and there I stand with a towle with a rock in it and 2 dudes still looking at me I think they got scared or just did not want to mess with a dude that was ready to protect himself and they turned a 180 and walked away. Thank god they didnt have a gun..


BTW That is why im here today on this very forum from that day on I know I needed to have a gun on My hip again. I got another LTCF since mine exp. over 3 years ago. I cleaned up My Old ass Rossi 38spl. SnubNose and I sold it and Got a New SpringField XD .40 4" I think its kinda big but for what I run into it will never be away from My hip when I need it..

[4XLT]

also at Koons Park in Linglestown on the big sign rule #7

[Triegle]

the county just got letter owned!

[snoman]

I just sent an email to East Allen Township. "No Firearms/Weapons" is written in their Bicentennial Park rules.

I also found one in Bethlehem, at the corner of Farmersville Rd. and Wilson Ave., down near the Lehigh river...

"As per Ordinance 3-87, the following acts are PROHIBITED on this trail: [line 4] Possession, transportation or use of any firearm, air rifle/pistol, sling shot or fireworks."

...and one in Easton. I believe the road it's on is Hope Rd. The road is off Freemanburg Avenue, just east of Rt. 33. There's a green sign out front saying "PA Fish & Boat Commission, Rt. 33 access." Follow the road south to the Lehigh river and the Bethlehem Boat Club. As soon as you go under a concrete arch, the sign is on a power pole directly in front of you...

"NO HUNTING, NO WEAPONS, ordinance #941, Section 2 & 4, Subsection C & G., Hugh Moore Park, City of Easton."

[Triegle]

Did you receive a response to your letter yet?

[HBGMarine]

also at Koons Park in Linglestown on the big sign rule #7

Koons Park is owned by Lower Paxton Township. I am in the process of getting that corrected with the assistance of pamountainman. Let me know if you're interested in joining the cause. Here's a link to the thread....
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...in-county.html

I just sent an email to East Allen Township. "No Firearms/Weapons" is written in their Bicentennial Park rules.

I also found one in Bethlehem, at the corner of Farmersville Rd. and Wilson Ave., down near the Lehigh river

+1

Good for you! Make sure to follow up with them if you don't hear back. I'm getting the impression that these things take time.

Did you receive a response to your letter yet?

Negative, no response as of yet. I'm already counting on dealing with the County taking quite some time. The real kick in the balls is that their meetings are during the week at 10am so if I attend I will have to miss a little work. If you live in Dauphin County and feel like helping out, feel free to shoot the commissioners an email as well. I'll update the thread if/when I get a response.