license vs. permit

[CHEMICAL]

ok i want to get this out in the open. i see so many responses when someone says concealed carry permit or concealed carry license, etc. vs. LTCF. some are informative, some are simply hostile and antagonistic.Lets not get confused between "what it says" and "what it really is."

The simple statement "License to carry a firearm" in itself would suggest that you need one to carry at all. That is not the case in Pa. Really all the license to carry does is permit you to carry concealed, so whether not it says "License to carry a firearm", it is a concealed weapons, or more specifically, concealed firearms license, or permit!

since open carry is perfectly legal in Pa what it should really be called is a "License to carry a firearm concealed", because that is in fact the sole purpose of it, other than say, a state of emergency.

my point, for those that like to simply poke and prod, and have nothing helpful or important to say to someone that says "concealed carry permit", lets stop being so damn anal retentive about simple toh-may-toh, to mah-to terminology, we know what theyre talking about, and what it says and what it actually is are different yet the same.

a "LTCF" IS a concealed firearms permit, or license!! period!, because you only need it if you are carrying concealed!yes i know there are exceptions, such as state parks, state of emergency, etc. etc. lets not get picky about the facts. even in state parks it has to be concealed. and in a car you need it because its considered concealed.

so anyway you hash it, its still required to carry concealed!

im not trying to start any friction, just stating that maybe sometimes we need to look past terminology at what something truly is before we jump on someone for simply saying, or typing "the wrong term". its great if someone wants to point out "what it actually says" on the license, but all that is , is a term. when the police say,"person of interest" it means theyre a suspect...well a "LTCF" is in fact a license or permit to conceal, its not a license to carry at all, because its not required to open carry.

ive said what i have to, comment as you wish, i will not be replying.

[tlgpa]

since open carry is perfectly legal in Pa what it should really be called is a "License to carry a firearm concealed", because that is in fact the sole purpose of it, other than say, a state of emergency.

No, that's not the sole purpose. The LTCF allows you to carry your firearm in your car. Loaded, concealed, or right on the seat next to you.

My original puropose of obtaining my LTCF was so I could go the the range, and stop at the grocery store on the way home without breaking the law. Absolutely has nothing to do with carrying concealed. You can't open carry and get in a car without a LTCF.

[Curmudgeon]

A LTCF is required to Open Carry in Philadelphia.

Your point is about as incorrect as is your puncuation.

[NikeBauer21]

I agree. I usually refer to it as a "License to Carry", but I never cut someone down for calling it a CCW. I mean, come on, we know what the person is talking about, you don't need to be a dick about it. And if you do feel the need to correct them, do it nicely.. don't be an ignorant asshat to them and make them feel like they aren't welcome in the carrying community because they didn't appease your ears. Some people are such tightasses that their world is destroyed when someone refers to it as a CCW. But I agree, it isn't that big of a deal to me. But I'm someone will post on here before long why "it is" a BIG deal...

Again LTCF is correct. But For someone "not in the know", I choose not to destroy them.

[HiredGoon]

well a "LTCF" is in fact a license or permit to conceal, its not a license to carry at all, because its not required to open carry.

A LTCF is required for open carry in a city of 1st class...right now that's only Philly, but in the future could be other city(ies) as well.

And for the record, I am from the camp that calls it as I see it. It says right on the document itself "License To Carry Firearms", and is referred to as such in the Uniform Firearms Act. And is also that way on the application to apply for one.

So that's what it should be called.

[soberbyker]

ok i want to get this out in the open. i see so many responses when someone says concealed carry permit or concealed carry license, etc. vs. LTCF. some are informative, some are simply hostile and antagonistic.Lets not get confused between "what it says" and "what it really is."

The simple statement "License to carry a firearm" in itself would suggest that you need one to carry at all. That is not the case in Pa. Really all the license to carry does is permit you to carry concealed, so whether not it says "License to carry a firearm", it is a concealed weapons, or more specifically, concealed firearms license, or permit!

since open carry is perfectly legal in Pa what it should really be called is a "License to carry a firearm concealed", because that is in fact the sole purpose of it, other than say, a state of emergency.

my point, for those that like to simply poke and prod, and have nothing helpful or important to say to someone that says "concealed carry permit", lets stop being so damn anal retentive about simple toh-may-toh, to mah-to terminology, we know what theyre talking about, and what it says and what it actually is are different yet the same.

a "LTCF" IS a concealed firearms permit, or license!! period!, because you only need it if you are carrying concealed! yes i know there are exceptions, such as state parks, state of emergency, etc. etc. lets not get picky about the facts. even in state parks it has to be concealed. and in a car you need it because its considered concealed.

so anyway you hash it, its still required to carry concealed!

im not trying to start any friction, just stating that maybe sometimes we need to look past terminology at what something truly is before we jump on someone for simply saying, or typing "the wrong term". its great if someone wants to point out "what it actually says" on the license, but all that is , is a term. when the police say,"person of interest" it means theyre a suspect...well a "LTCF" is in fact a license or permit to conceal, its not a license to carry at all, because its not required to open carry.

ive said what i have to, comment as you wish, i will not be replying.

That bold-ed in RED above kind of debunks your whole argument. The main exception, as noted by others here, being cites of the first class requiring the LTCF to carry either CC or OC.

That said, I agree that some folks are a bit to hard on folks for not using the proper terminology. I'd rather see us as a whole educate new comers to the whole shebang instead of chasing them away as some of us play nomenclature police.

I know when I stumbled onto this site I knew nothing about firearms or the laws surrounding them. I knew how to shoot but that was it. I'm glad some folks took the time to educate me about this stuff, not holler at me for using a similar but not exact term for stuff.

We were all new to this once.

.

[headcase]

Calling someone some sort of asswipe because they use the term CCP, CWP, or whatever else, is wrong. Pointing out that anyone who is interested in learning the facts surrounding gun ownership in this Commonwealth should start refering to it as a LTCF, because that is in fact what it is, what it is called in statute, and what it has printed right on it, and that using the correct terminology associated with gun ownership in this Commonwealth goes a long way in being taken seriously in a discussion of the facts, is kind of the point of this site being here.....

Those here that feel that "nitpicking" about facts is detrimental to their feel good, everyone's feelings are important, just go with whatever instead of correcting and possibly offending someone, rhetoric, should stop posting unless they run their own stuff past someone else first......

Oh yeah, BTW, posting that anyone who suggests that someone new uses the correct terminology, is an anal buttmunch, and then saying that's all you have to say and won't be responding, is punkish....

[Brick]

Just for grins and giggles, let's alter the OP's question and ask,
What is the difference between a license and a permit? I'm sure there are significant differences. Something perhaps along the lines of "a license is governmental testimony that you have proven the minimum requirements to engage in a certain activity" While a permit means you have "applied for and received govenment permission to engage in a certain activity." So one could be licensed to practice a trade or permitted to be a street vendor. What do you think?

[soberbyker]

from: http://dictionary.reference.com/

li⋅cense  /ˈlaɪsəns/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [lahy-suhns] Show IPA noun, verb, -censed, -cens⋅ing.



–noun 1.formal permission from a governmental or other constituted authority to do something, as to carry on some business or profession.2.a certificate, tag, plate, etc., giving proof of such permission; official permit: a driver's license. 3.permission to do or not to do something.4.intentional deviation from rule, convention, or fact, as for the sake of literary or artistic effect: poetic license. 5.exceptional freedom allowed in a special situation.6.excessive or undue freedom or liberty.7.licentiousness. 8.the legal right to use a patent owned by another.
–verb (used with object) 9.to grant authoritative permission or license to.

[per⋅mit1  /v. pərˈmɪt; n. ˈpɜrmɪt, pərˈmɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [v. per-mit; n. pur-mit, per-mit] Show IPA verb, -mit⋅ted, -mit⋅ting, noun


–verb (used with object) 1.to allow to do something: Permit me to explain. 2.to allow to be done or occur: The law does not permit the sale of such drugs. 3.to tolerate; agree to: a law permitting Roman Catholicism in England. 4.to afford opportunity for, or admit of: vents to permit the escape of gases.
–verb (used without object) 5.to grant permission; allow liberty to do something.6.to afford opportunity or possibility: Write when time permits. 7.to allow or admit (usually fol. by of): statements that permit of no denial.
–noun 8.an authoritative or official certificate of permission; license: a fishing permit. 9.a written order granting special permission to do something.10.permission.