Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 28
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Out In The Sticks, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
    721
    Rep Power
    215079

    Default Freedom Armory...not very well educated on OC.

    So today i went with a buddy of mine to Freedom Armory in Glen Rock PA. He went to use the range, and i went to get some boxes of 9mm FMJ, some boxes of 9mm hollowpoints, and a Hogue grip for one of my guns.

    While i was in there, i decided to get a range membership since i'm constantly down in the Glen Rock area. I usually dont like ranges that much because i cant stand all the rules, time limits, and other regulations, and i usually just go shooting on my buddy's farm, i have for years.

    So i payed my $20 for the one year daily pass, plus the $12 for the day. Then the one employee walks me over to the left side of the store so i can get my picture taken for my shooting range ID card/pass. As i'm sitting there in the chair and the employee is taking my picture and doing something on his computer, i decide to ask him a question about something i've heard on here and from other friends about Freedom Armory. I say, "Do you guys allow open carrying into the store"? His reply was "No, definitely not, we do allow concealed carry into the store and on the property, but only if you are law enforcement or have a "permit to carry concealed". Also, if you have a "permit to carry concealed", it means exactly that...you must carry it concealed."

    Now, at this point, i know this guy is so full of shit that my head is about to spin. I politely tell him, as well as SHOW him my LTCF and inform him that first off, PA does NOT issue "permits to carry concealed", they issue a License To Carry Firearms. His retort to that was "well its the same thing". I then tell him that in PA, a License To Carry Firearms does not mean you HAVE to carry your firearm concealed, because in PA it is perfectly legal to open carry without a LTCF unless your in Philadelphia (city of the first class). This is when the guy really started to piss me off with his ignorance. He then says "Open Carry is not legal in the state of PA, unless you are law enforcement or other certain reasons."

    After this he asks me to pose for my picture, i do so, then he walks me over to range doors and takes about 42 days (well thats how long it seemed to take) to tell me all the range rules, which are all pretty much just common sense. Anyway, after he tells me that me and my buddy are free to go, before i make my way into the range, i pull the guy aside and tell him "Open Carry in the state of PA is perfectly legal, with or without a License To Carry. You might want to do some research and know the laws a little better before you tell so many customers things that arent facts" Now, remember i said all this in a very polite manner, i didnt want to be a dick, because all the employees of Freedom Armory have always been super nice to me.

    I've been going to Freedom Armory ever since they moved to their current location. I mostly go in there to buy guns, ammo, random supplies, targets, and sometimes just to shoot the shit with the employees about guns. What pisses me off the most is that the employees of Freedom Armory clearly arent very well educated on something that they should know ALOT about, i mean after all they ARE a gun shop! In the end, its really not that big of a deal to me personally, because i carry concealed 99.9% of the time. But i dont like the fact that they could possibly be flooding the minds of the naive gun owners with bullshit things that they consider to be facts, when they are not.

    I'll still frequent Freedom Armory, because im down in Glen Rock a hell of alot and its the closest gun shop for ammo and such to me when i'm down there.

    Just as a warning though, if any of you in the York area dont care to support a gun shop that is ignorant of the carrying laws and is clearly against OCing...dont go to Freedom Armory. Other than that, i think FA is a great shop, if you can get past the higher prices and their ignorance of the law.
    Last edited by danp; October 4th, 2011 at 01:57 PM.
    "A peaceful mind generates power"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City in, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,258
    Rep Power
    3606358

    Default Re: Freedom Armory...not very well educated on OC.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShadow View Post
    .... He then says "Open Carry is not legal in the state of PA, unless you are law enforcement or other certain reasons."
    Given his ignorance of this subject, I would like to hear what he thinks these "other certain reasons" are

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Kittanning, Pennsylvania
    (Armstrong County)
    Posts
    651
    Rep Power
    1745

    Default Re: Freedom Armory...not very well educated on OC.

    I would have never continued with the membership process. People selling firearms and supplying a range to the public should know the laws and allow you to exercise your right to do so. I won't be going to FA anytime soon.
    The original point and click interface was a Colt Peacemaker!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Home, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,099
    Rep Power
    7799421

    Default Re: Freedom Armory...not very well educated on OC.

    Just had to see for yourself didnt ya? I dont know how to link but I started a thread on this shop---"OC in gun shop bad form?" I think you even posted in it.

    TOLD YA SO!!!
    The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.
    Ayn Rand

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    columbia, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Age
    40
    Posts
    481
    Rep Power
    46285

    Default Re: Freedom Armory...not very well educated on OC.

    ive never oc'd i just dont feel like dealing with the hassle. however i do cc and i got my ltcf before i even got my handgun. but for a shop to not know the laws that is ridiculous. that guy shouldnt even work in a gun shop.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Windsor Twsp., Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Age
    67
    Posts
    6,904
    Rep Power
    21474858

    Default Re: Freedom Armory...not very well educated on OC.

    There have been a fair number of folks here on PAFOA stating they had similar experiences at Freedom Armory, and I agree that this is completely unacceptable.

    However, based on your OP, you didn't have an anti-OC experience with a GUN SHOP, you had an anti-OC experience with ONE employee.

    I also have a membership at that range, and I have OC'd there every time I go in. I know my OC gets noticed because it is often pointed and becomes a part of the conversation. That is, my XD becomes a part of the conversation... not my OC.

    I also don't like FA's prices, but their shop really is nice, and I find their used gun prices are actually pretty attractive.

    Rep to you for trying to set their idiot straight on OC. Can you describe the guy? I'd like to try my hand at educating him myself next time I'm down there.

    As we all know, as private property owners, they are free to enjoy an anti-OC policy if they choose, but to call themselves FREEDOM ARMORY and list their address as 2nd Amendment Drive, they should at least possess an accurate and correct knowledge of PA's gun laws.

    Or, maybe they should change their name to Sarah Brady's Armory?



    P.S. Apparently, you need to start carrying flyers in with you from now on!!
    While many claim to support the right, precious few support the practice.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fawn Grove, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
    161
    Rep Power
    49

    Default Re: Freedom Armory...not very well educated on OC.

    Tempest in a teapot.

    Seems to me that most of the employees are OC when I visit. I've seen a couple customers OC while I've been there with no incident. Pissing matches between gunnies are always funny because everybody seems to "own" the truth.

    Some customers with an axe to grind seem intent on baiting some poor hourly employee with mundane facts. It's even better that the customer thinks the employee should be an expert in all aspects of the store business (try that at Wal-Mart). Retail sales people need to be experts at two things- 1) being polite/friendly/nice and 2) selling stuff. In my experience, Freedom Armory's folks meet that test. And yes, their prices are very stiff. Some good deals to be had on some used/consignment guns.
    9mm = 45acp set on "stun"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    ., Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    1,089
    Rep Power
    3949

    Default Re: Freedom Armory...not very well educated on OC.

    Quote Originally Posted by YBNORMAL View Post
    Just had to see for yourself didnt ya? I dont know how to link but I started a thread on this shop---"OC in gun shop bad form?" I think you even posted in it.

    TOLD YA SO!!!
    Here you go. http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...-bad-form.html

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Pequea Township, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Age
    64
    Posts
    453
    Rep Power
    3544

    Talking Re: Freedom Armory...not very well educated on OC.

    That person at freedom armory is so full of shit his breath stinks.
    I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Windsor Twsp., Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Age
    67
    Posts
    6,904
    Rep Power
    21474858

    Default Re: Freedom Armory...not very well educated on OC.

    Quote Originally Posted by 45Badger View Post
    Tempest in a teapot.

    Seems to me that most of the employees are OC when I visit. I've seen a couple customers OC while I've been there with no incident. Pissing matches between gunnies are always funny because everybody seems to "own" the truth.

    Some customers with an axe to grind seem intent on baiting some poor hourly employee with mundane facts. It's even better that the customer thinks the employee should be an expert in all aspects of the store business (try that at Wal-Mart). Retail sales people need to be experts at two things- 1) being polite/friendly/nice and 2) selling stuff. In my experience, Freedom Armory's folks meet that test. And yes, their prices are very stiff. Some good deals to be had on some used/consignment guns.

    *Bold is mine.

    I'd agree with you, except we are not discussing WalMart. Walmart has dozens of various departments, thousands of merchandise categories, hundreds of employees, etc.

    A gun shop is a specialty store. I don't go to Freedom Armory to inquire about and purchase items related to fishing. Or sewing.

    Yes, I have an expectation that a counter person at a specialty shop like Freedom Armory possesses a certain minimum knowledge of the specialty he is attempting to sell.

    Why? Well, just picture it. You go into a specialty shop looking to make a purchase, and maybe you have a couple questions. You find that the buffoon behind the counter is clueless about his wares, but he is aggressivley attempting to sell you anything just to make any kind of a sale. Which is absolutely no help to you, you have no interest in being goaded into spending a lot of money, but end up buying the wrong thing.

    If you know exactly what you want, you can usually get it online, mostly cheaper. These shops exist for a reason. They provide a service you usally can't get online. If employees are clueless, the shop is worthless. Customers will eventually get tired of it all, and stop going there.

    Makes no sense. It is in the best interests of the owners to keep the employees as knowledgeable as possible, so the shop can provide the best value, ensuring it's own success.

    The employee could just as easily have confessed ignorance of the OC/CC laws and had a wonderful conversation with the customer. In which case the customer, the employee, and the shop all benefit. On the other hand, to spout off wrongly when ignorant of the facts just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

    From a Customer Service perspective, the OP's experience was a complete disaster. I'm willing to bet the owner of this shop would not be happy about that.

    While many claim to support the right, precious few support the practice.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Freedom Armory: what are people's experiences?
    By Ecclectic Collector in forum General
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: June 6th, 2009, 12:10 AM
  2. My first visit to Freedom Armory
    By Steeltown in forum General
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: May 14th, 2009, 01:06 AM
  3. Classes at Freedom Armory
    By jeeper53 in forum General
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: January 22nd, 2009, 12:51 AM
  4. Freedom Armory
    By Arch007er in forum General
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: September 19th, 2008, 05:46 PM
  5. Freedom Armory, Glen Rock PA
    By KEVINMPOPE in forum General
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: February 21st, 2008, 11:30 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •