Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Suppressing a rifle, AR or SKS?

    Okay, I have always wanted a suppressed rifle and decided to finally start saving. Luckily I have plenty of time to plan while I save.

    I really do like the AR15 platform and would love to have one. But add in the cost of the suppressor and tax stamp and the price is getting VERY high. I currently have a russian SKS and once again. love it.

    I could get an SKS, adjustable stock, 20rd mags for AT LEAST half what an AR would cost if I built it from stripped.

    Does anyone have personal or otherwise experience with suppressing either of these rifles? Naturally the AR would be a better choice down the road, I just don't know if the price would be worth it in the long run.

    Thanks,
    Brian

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Suppressing a rifle, AR or SKS?

    Rule 1 of NFA:
    Don't get involved in NFA weapons if you don't want to spend gobs of cash. period. Nothing you do NFA will be cheap, simply get used to that fact now.

    if you want to do stuff on the cheap, NFA is not for you

    that being said, you will want to HEAR a suppressor in action, preferably on your chosen platform before you buy one.

    its NOT a "silencer", on a rifle, its a suppressor, unless you use subsonic ammo, you will still have supersonic crack, all it does is moderate the actual BANG from the guns muzzle blast.

    Further, choice of weapn, and suppressor is something to be careful about.
    AKs and SKS types do not suppress well (meaning quiet)
    the gun wont function in semiauto with subsonic ammo
    the action is LOUD itself, since its open.

    so, you will have a loud action crashing back and forth in front of you, AND supersonic ammo...its not a pleasing combination.

    223 in an AR15 is easier to suppress, the smaller round is less noisy in supersonic flight, and the platform itself is easy to set up.

    Further, a 30cal suppressor is more expensive than a 223 suppressor.
    its built heavier, stronger, and can take more pressure for a 30cal round.
    Its also designed for 30cal, and wont be quite as effective supressing 223, or lesser calibers....but it will still do it.

    A purpose built 7.62x39 can would be best for your application, but now you are platform stuck...a 223 suppressor can also be used on a 22LR rifle...as long as the mount is set up correctly.
    A 30cal can would work also...for 308 or 300WM, but now you get much larger, and more expensive, and so does the platform and platform work.

    Now, getting a suppressor set up for a SKS will require gunsmithing.
    you need X aount of US parts on an SKS to put a detachable mag/foldingstock/threaded muzzle on it anyway, under 922(r) rules.
    and not much muzzle sticks out in front of the front sight on a russian or chinese SKS, but a Yugo style may work better, since its already threaded under the grenade launcher
    so you need:
    the SKS
    US parts
    You need gunsmithing for the mount
    Gunsmithing to possibly modify the gun to allow attachment of the mount

    gunsmithing adds up quick, and you havent even added in the price for a suppressor and TX fee yet.

    so in teh end you have a cheap LOUD gun, thats had its worth in gunsmithing done to fit an expensive can and mount on it, to get mediocre accuracy, and little or no platform adaptability.

    like I said, its pricey, and won't be worth it in the long run.

    I'd say save a bit more, get a quality AR-15, and then get a decent 223 can for it, but go listen to some first before buying, if you can.


    I got a 223 can ytears ago, I dont actually use it much, but its neat when I do.
    "Oderint Dum Metuant" - BMFH

    "Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm"

    Note: any whingeing crazy that hits my PM inbox will be deleted without reply

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Suppressing a rifle, AR or SKS?

    Thanks for the ton of info, it seems to be a bit more extensive than I first thought.

    I think I will have to put away a little more than expected, and the AR is what I really wanted in the first place.

    Two quick questions:

    Is there a good shop in the pittsburg area to look at some class 3 gear?

    and can a can be switched between two rifles without buying separate tax stamps? If I did go the 7.62 route it would be nice to ease the boom on the Mosin as well (once again, it's likely just a pipe dream)


    Thanks again for the quick and very detailed response.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Suppressing a rifle, AR or SKS?

    I cant really recommend anybody in W PA, I'm in SE PA...Only guy I know out there is Charlie Logan at Arms & Ordinance in Warrendale...and I have no idea what he stocks.

    as for the moving the can,. the stamp is for the suppressor, you can put it on anything it can fit...taxes are paid on the item if its a can, not generally what it goes on, unless the can is integral to the gun.

    further, if you want to use a 7.52 can, you need one that will take at least 30-06/308/300WM if you want to use 7.62x54...a x39 can wont take the pressures ...for long
    "Oderint Dum Metuant" - BMFH

    "Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm"

    Note: any whingeing crazy that hits my PM inbox will be deleted without reply

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Suppressing a rifle, AR or SKS?

    I think JayBell probably summed it up pretty good. Particularly in terms of suppressing an SKS. I think by the time you bought the SKS, had a smith monkey with it to actually mount the suppressor, purchase the suppressor, pay your taxes, you'd probably be able to set up a halfway decent suppressed AR.

    I have a suppressed AR-15 and for me at least it's just barely below the "ring your ears" level. I think most of the noise is action related and sonic crack. Observing the AR-15 fired with a suppressor I noticed it sounds quite a bit diffrent if standing on the left side opposite the ejection port when it's fired.

    This was my first suppressor and I absolutely do not regret my decision to purchase it. I was told to maybe start with a 22 suppressor first, and that I'd probably be dissappointed with the noise suppression of a rifle can. I'm not. I purchased it to reduce the sound level to avoid pissing people off with loud muzzle blast, and that's exactly what it does. My 14.5" barreled AR is pretty loud. When you fire it suppressed, you can't help but have a huge grin on your face. It's cool!

    If you're really interested in NFA, I say go for it.

    I think there's a company called PA Defense Consultants somewhere in the pittsburg area. They have a web-site and handle Class III. They might be able to help you out.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Suppressing a rifle, AR or SKS?

    Thanks everyone!


    this is going to be fun

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Suppressing a rifle, AR or SKS?

    If you do decide to go the route of the AR, you could also get something like a NEF Handi-Rifle in .223 and have it also threaded. Then you would have a super quiet varmint gun that you could actually hunt with.
    Adams County Sport Handgunners Association - President

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Suppressing a rifle, AR or SKS?

    Here's an example of subsonic vs. supersonic. This is only a .22, but gives you a good idea what the sonic crack sounds like. www.bloomautomatic.com/tac65.wmv. With the subsonic rounds, you can hear the bullet whistling through the air and strike the backstop downrange with a thud.

    One thing to consider if you want to stay subsonic is the bullet weight. A subsonic .223 isn't much more than a .22 in power - say 60gr or so at ~1000fps. Aguila subsonicsniper is a 60gr at 850fps or so. With a 7.62, you're still limited with velocity, but can go much heavier with the bullets.

    Not more than a week ago I read an article a guy did on reloading 7.62x39 with 180gr or maybe 200gr bullets and they were able to cycle the action.

    But like jaybell said - cost, etc.

    If you want to play with suppressors and be really quiet, I'd say get an AR with a .22 kit and a thread on can. Then get your other .22's threaded (professionally) to take the same can.

    Another option is pistol caliber rifles - like the .44mag. A suppressed 300gr .44 mag bullet at 1000fps has some decent juice to it!

    Vince
    www.bloomautomatic.com - Golf Ball Launchers for AR-15, SKS, FAL, and many others

    www.bloomautomatic.com/lbsc - Long Branch Sportsman's Club, Long Branch, PA

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Suppressing a rifle, AR or SKS?

    I'm with Jay on this one...there isn't anything cheap when it comes to NFA...you will have to pony up like the rest of us.

    To me it doesn't make much sense to suppress something that the tax stamp cost more than the entire weapon (SKS), not that I'm bashing the SKS.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Suppressing a rifle, AR or SKS?

    If you realy like the AR and want to stick w/ centerfire rounds

    May I suggest a 221/300 fireball (300 whisper) AR upper and a .30 cal can. The can will work just as well on a 5.56 and will allow you to supress .308 if you want in the future. The nice thing about the 221/300 is you can get some decent enegry downrange wile still remaining subsonic. (bullet weight is your friend when your limited in velocity)

    A 44mag supressed is nice but i've only seen integral barrel setups and as such would not be my first choice for a first supressor.

    I would suggest a 22RF can for a first supressor. They are not that expensive (compared to most NFA) they work very well, and hosts are for the most part cheap.

    If you look a few posts down you will find some W PA dealers listed

    And as everyone allready said there is no such thing as CHEAP in NFA.
    Last edited by Mtdew; June 23rd, 2007 at 10:43 PM.

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