Deer head shots.

[jcabin]

I didn't want to rip off another guys thread so I started my own.

Dredly believes my 7.62x54r will make a bit of a mess on the deer I end up hitting, which I believe to be true, as the round is a bit big for deer hunting.

That being said, I would like to preserve as much meat as possible.

Is taking a head shot on a deer ethical?

I don't plan on making a trophy.

[steamtownwelder]

If your that confident in your shooting and equipment I can't think of a more ethical shot.

[Dredly]

1. its not "Dredly believes"... its "Dredly knows for a fact" :P I've never witnessed a deer get hit with a 7.62x54 round but I have seen what happens when they are hit with a 30.06 Boat tail round and it does destroy meat. The only way you aren't going to destroy meat is hitting it in the head, everythign else will damage meat.


depending on where you hit it you probably won't destroy a lot of meat, maybe a pound or 2 but if you hit it in the shoulder you may mess up a little more.

NEVER shoot at the head. I know people do it routinely, i know people who can drill a deer in the eye at 150 yards every shot... but its a dumb shot. take the shot right behind the shoulder. lose some meat but kill the animal. going for a head shot is just asking for a possible miss that could seriously injury or maim an animal that may not die for some time. I have seen deer with missing lower jaws, holes in their necks, missing ears... it isn't a pretty sight when a deer can't eat or drink because a hunter decided to try and show off and hits the bottom jaw instead of the brain.

btw - just in case you are wondering for "comparison" sake... the average 110 - 120 pound deer will get you about 50 - 60 pounds of meat from the butcher after it is mixed and ground up. you may be able to get a little more if you do it yourself and strip the ribs...

so figure you may lose 1 - 2 pounds of meat out of 50 pounds... its not a big loss

[incynr8]

Jaw shots suck. I committed one once on a opossum with a handgun (I had the handgun, not he). I was a younger guy and it was a very poor placed shot, no excuse and that animal suffered only a few extra seconds let alone whatever the rest of it's life would have been.

head shots are risky on deer. it's ethical IF it's perfect and the margin is greatly reduced over the standard prefect shot placement. The near miss on them is quite often disaster as explained above.

I passed on up last year. I kick myself a bit for it, got within say 30-40 FEET and a berm(I was also kneeling) hid everything but upper neck and head, looking at me, of a decent doe. I could have so gone after that with my .308 scout rifle....passed it up.

[jcabin]

Alright, thanks guys.

I'm no where near an expert level rifle shooter, I wouldn't even consider myself intermediate level.

I'm definately at the beginner level on rifles.
I can hit a man sized target at 100 yards with my mosin, confident in that.

As far as making a good shot on a deer, well thats what the next 6 weeks of training will be for.

Also I probably will be trying for a shot within 50 yards if possible.

[R.W.J]

Every year, a few days after the season is over I get a call about an injured deer running around with its lower jaw blown off, looks horrific and the animal really suffers.

[howard stiffy]

One shot behind the shoulder.
I like these for the 'minimal' damage,
and they really do 'reach out'.

[ReconLdr]

The 7.62x54R is not unlike a 30-06. You may damage a little meat but I see no reason to not use your Mosin to take a deer. Just use a soft point bullet to maximize the impact. If you use FMJ ammo, it won't expand very well if at all. You could end up chasing the wounded deer a good distance before you find it, if you find it.

My idiot cousin shot a deer with his AK (wolf FMJ) and complained about how far he had to track and chase the deer afterwards, only to shoot it again when he found it.

NOTE: My idiot cousin ended up paying fines and lost his hunting priveledges for some time after this incident. Hell I don't know if he is allowed to hunt in Pa yet since I don't talk to him very much.

[incynr8]

i want to try those, 168s-180s out of my 6lb rifle is exciting though! cake in the 14pounder...nasty in the hunting rifle.

[Tomcat088]

I didn't want to rip off another guys thread so I started my own.

Dredly believes my 7.62x54r will make a bit of a mess on the deer I end up hitting, which I believe to be true, as the round is a bit big for deer hunting.

That being said, I would like to preserve as much meat as possible.

Is taking a head shot on a deer ethical?

I don't plan on making a trophy.

I believe that dredly is right in his assessment of what a 7.62x54R does with a lot of different bullets. He is definitely right about if you shoot a deer into a shoulder with a 7.62x54, .30-06 or any of the magnums, you'll wait a bit of meat, usually you can only save a bit from that shoulder. If you pass one behind the shoulder into the heart, you stand a MUCH better chance of not waisting any meat. In my experience with .300 winmags and WSM's, if you use a heavy bullet that is going pretty fast, and pass it behind the shoulder, you won't waste any meat. Part of the solution is using the right bullet. I almost exclusively shoot 180 grain accubond bullets because they are hard hitting, deep penetrating bullets. If you hit a shoulder they expand about as much as any other bullet, but they hold together well. If you shoot a 180 grain accubond moving around 3,100 fps and go behind the shoulder, even if it passes through a rib, it will hardly expand at all. In order to do this, it means that you have to have a full quartering shot, which sometimes always isn't what you get. I haven't shot any 165 grain accubonds, but I imagine since they are lighter, they'll expand a bit more than the 180's. Heavy bullets that are moving fast, especially inside of 150 yards or close, aren't as bad as the lighter ones. There's the trade off though that the bullet doesn't expand as much (they still expand), which if the shot isn't placed correctly could be considered unethical and detrimental to the shot.

I do believe that taking a headshot on a deer IS ethical, but under VERY strict conditions. You should NEVER, and I mean NEVER, shoot at a deer that has it's head turned and looking away, NEVER. These are the kinds of shots where even the slightest (1/2" sometimes) misjudgement of the wind will cause you to miss and blow a deer's jaw off. You should not be taking side shots and trying to thread one through the ears, etc; those kind of shots don't always kill a deer, they give it a lobotomy and it runs off later to die slowly.

You MUST be a very good shooter to take headshots, and you MUST have even better judgement. Judgement about the conditions, about the behavior of the deer and if it's comfortable or skittish, etc. You have to know the exact range to the deer, and you need to know your exact dope. There is no margin for "it'll hit close enough at this distance"; like I said, in the horizontal direction, half an inch and ruin the shot, although in certain shots, you get maybe and inch or inch and a half room for margin of error. What it comes down to is that you have to be able to pretty much hold 1/2" or just under 3/4" groups ALL THE TIME, UNDER FIELD CONDITIONS. I'm not talking about sitting on a bench shooting those groups, I'm talking about shooting from the same setup that you would hunting (improvised rest, gloves, heavy clothes, etc). I have made at least 10 headshots on deer, and have yet to have one that was injured or got away. You MUST shoot at the deer while it is looking DIRECTLY at you, or directly away from you. I get everythign dialed in, have the crosshairs EXACTLY where the head will turn, and then I whistle or make a gentle noise. The deer then turns to look at you and you MUST take the shot while centered on the nasal cavity. The benefit of this is the target is very narrow, if you miss your windage you will not hit at all. If you miss high you won't usually hit the deer, BUT if you miss low you will usually clip the spine or at the very least the carotid. I have never hit one in the neck because I've always been dead on.

You have to realize that when taking a shot this way, there are very tight time constraints, because the deer will soon run. It's the only way I know to keep it's head still enough (not eating, looking around, throwing it's head around, etc); to ethically take a headshot. It should REALLY be noted that because of the tight time constraints the shot will be VERY difficult. I practice under time constraint by getting my hold on target, and having a friend call when I should shoot. Because you never know how fast a deer will raise it's head, etc. If you have not practiced breaking the shot on someone else's call, practiced cold bore reading the wind, proper ranging, you have NO chance of making this shot. It is COMPLETELY unethical to attempt to do so.

So I think that a headshot is ethical for a very small number of hunters, under VERY good conditions. I cannot always fulfill the conditions myself, and if I don't KNOW that I can, then don't take the shot. Even some of the best shooters on a "moderate" day; will not take this shot, because it's not right if the conditions aren't perfect. Just be honest with yourself, genuinely, bone crusher, put your ego aside, honest; if you can't do all of those things, don't do it. I can't always do it, and it's why I don't always headshoot deer. If you can't do it, use a good heavy reliable bullet, and try not to hit the front shoulder; you won't waste must meat, they end up just as dead, and you won't feel guilt or have to live with jawshooting, neck punching, a beautiful game animal. Be honest with yourself, maybe it's something you can work at for next year, maybe it's something you could be ready for this year; but PLEASE be honest with yourself.