New member and legality of police encounter

**met152** · August 13th, 2009, 08:23 AM

Just wanted to send out a quick message to introduce myself here on the forums. I have been lurking here for a while, but I believe this is my first post. I've slowly been gaining a great deal of knowledge from these forums.
I currently CC a Glock 26 in a Milt Sparks VM2 IWB. I don't quite carry daily, mainly because my job doesn't permit, but it's always either on my nightstand, in my car, or IWB. The G26 is also a little too thick for comfortable CC. Looking for something thinner as my next firearm (Kahr MK9 maybe?)

Here's the situation that I'd like some feedback on for those with the best knowledge of the law. Now this happened over a year ago, so there's really no following up on it now.

I sold some Steelers tickets on ebay for my dad and was meeting the seller locally to exchange. We decided to meet in Rankin (near the Waterfront in Pittsburgh) in an admittedly "shady" area. We both pulled into the empty parking lot along the road and began the ticket exchange for cash. I wasn't CCing this day (gun was in my car, but I wasn't carrying as often last year as I do now). We saw 1 cop car pass by and about 30 seconds later, a police cruiser pulled into the lot and confronted us. I don't remember the exact thing he said, but it was something like "What's going on here, everyone keep their hands out of their pockets." We told him that Steelers tickets were being sold. He took the tickets to inspect, and then proceeded to pat all of us for down weapons. Then he asked for ID and took the drivers licenses to his vehicle to check us out. Everything came back clear, IDs and tickets were returned, and he said "You guys know how this looks, right?"
Everyone went on their way after that.

So I'm pretty sure several of my rights were violated that day. I'm not looking to write any letters or call anyone about this. Looking back, I wish I would have carried my Glock on my person. I knew we were doing nothing illegal. When this happened, I didn't even know about PAFOA.org. I knew the basics of the law, but nothing about the legality of police asking questions, patting us down, etc. I want to be more informed in case something like this happens in the future.

So the question is, how legal was it what the police did?

**Statkowski** · August 13th, 2009, 08:32 AM

You were admittedly in a shady section of town, doing something that certainly looked suspiscious. Fpr all the police knew, it could have been a drug transaction or other illegal deal taking place.

Any inconveniences, I believe, were brought on by yourself. Everything was returned; nobody ended up in handcuffs or spreadeagled on the ground.

Rights violated? Wouldn't fly.

**stephpd** · August 13th, 2009, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Statkowski

You were admittedly in a shady section of town, doing something that certainly looked suspiscious. Fpr all the police knew, it could have been a drug transaction or other illegal deal taking place.

Any inconveniences, I believe, were brought on by yourself. Everything was returned; nobody ended up in handcuffs or spreadeagled on the ground.

Rights violated? Wouldn't fly.

Yeah the story as posted would raise the suspicion of most reasonable people. Can't blame the police for poor judgment on everyone else involved. Next time meet at someplace less suspicious, maybe a Micky Dees or a mall food court.

**unclejumbo** · August 13th, 2009, 09:57 AM

Agreed, RAS is developed by the totality of the circumstances. Two cars pull into a parking lot in a shady area and conduct a transaction. LEO wouldn't have been doing his job if he assumed nothing illegal was going on. He checked it out, all was good and everyone went about their business.

If LEO had proned you out and put a knee in the back of your neck, that would have been a violation of your rights.

**met152** · August 13th, 2009, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by stephpd

Yeah te story as posted would raise the suspicion of most reasonable people. Can't blame the police for poor judgment on everyone else involved. Next time meet at someplace less suspicious, maybe a Micky Dees or a mall food court.

Yeah, I agree with what everyone has responded.
I guess me doing a lot of reading on the forums about different encounters with police and some people (seems like mostly OC guys) giving as little cooperation or information as lawfully required, just had me wondering about this situation.

When I said it was a shady area, I guess I should just said it wasn't in the best part of town (low income area, slightly higher crime rate, etc.). We were on a main road however, and since the guys I was meeting were from out of town, I choose the closest area to the path they were driving. No bad guy looking to make a drug deal or other illegal transaction would have EVER chosen this spot for such.

Thanks for your points of view on the subject.

**Statkowski** · August 13th, 2009, 10:09 PM

...it wasn't in the best part of town (low income area, slightly higher crime rate, etc.). We were on a main road however, ...

Again, two cars come along, park on the side of the road, low income area, money and something changes hands. Hmm, something fishy going on here?

Mickey Dee's place, have a cup of coffee (or one of their new, super-expensive almond mocha nut crunch whatevers), trade tickets for cash, nobody notices you.

**Brillfan** · August 13th, 2009, 10:54 PM

Two thumbs up to the LEO for being so vigilant. He had no idea if it was a drug deal, a robbery, etc. Some day that same officer may interrupt a crime and save someone's skin.

Just shake it off and have a better day tomorrow!

Almost forgot....Welcome to the group!

**Retired One** · August 13th, 2009, 11:08 PM

Welcome to the group, and glad nothing went down with the LEO. There is a ton of information that you can get from this group, just pay attention and you will learn from the many experiences that the group has to offer.