Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Ammo: legal or illegal

    At the range sighting in the 30.06 for future hunting trips. I was approached by another shooter and asked if I'd be interested in buying Army Surplus armor piercing bullets. I know army surplus bullets of that era have corrosive powder and if I would buy some I would fire one time, or pull the bullet and reload the cases. Whatever I had time to do. 2 questions: is it legal to own, buy, or sell armor piercing bullets. And what would be a reasonable price per each? I know they are steel bullets because they are magnetic and the primers are painted "red".

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ammo: legal or illegal

    Found this:

    http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007...piercing-ammo/

    The regulations on armor piercing ammo are among the strangest of the federal firearms regulations. The first is that AP ammo is rather odd in its definition. The ATF defines it as handgun ammunition, but there’s a catch. If any handgun has ever been made in a specific caliber, then ATF considers that the AP ammo regulations then apply to that caliber. That’s why you can’t buy AP ammo for cartridges like 7.62×39 and several others. The 5.56×45NATO is specifically exempted from this, even though there are pistols made for it.

    It’s perfectly legal to possess, purchase, sell or shoot armor piercing ammunition. It’s not legal to manufacture or import armor piercing ammunition.

    In order to manufacture AP rounds, you have to hold a type 10 FFL (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7)). In order to import AP rounds, you have to hold a type 11 FFL (18 USC sec. 922(a)(7)). If you hold either one of these FFLs, it’s not legal to sell or export AP rounds, except to military, law enforcement (18 USC sec. 922(a)(8)). In addition, if you hold a type 06-08 FFL (manufactures of firearms, importers of firearms, manufactures of ammunition), then you also my not sell AP rounds to the general public.

    For regular type 01-03 FFL holders, you may sell or deliver AP ammunition, but it must be entered into the Acquisition and Disposition Record (bound book). So if you have any AP rounds in your possession, that’s ok. But it’s been illegal to manufacture or import new ammunition that’s transferable to ordinary citizens for quite some time, and for the most part, it’s generally unavailable, and certainly not in any significant quantity for most calibers.

    Of course, there are also various state restrictions. Pennsylvania prohibits KTW ammunition. NJ and NY have additional restrictions on AP ammo.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ammo: legal or illegal

    Hm, I see 'armor piercing' ammunition on web sites now and then. Maybe it just doesn't meet the odd government classifications for armor piercing, even though that's what it is designed to do.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Ammo: legal or illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by bert View Post
    At the range sighting in the 30.06 for future hunting trips. I was approached by another shooter and asked if I'd be interested in buying Army Surplus armor piercing bullets. I know army surplus bullets of that era have corrosive powder and if I would buy some I would fire one time, or pull the bullet and reload the cases. Whatever I had time to do. 2 questions: is it legal to own, buy, or sell armor piercing bullets. And what would be a reasonable price per each? I know they are steel bullets because they are magnetic and the primers are painted "red".
    The primary concern should be making certain you have a backstop up to the task of stopping an AP round from .30-06, as they really drill. The second is familiarizing yourself with cleaning after using corrosive primed ammunition. The powder should still be almost full strength from W.W.II unless stored in a very hot, humid environment.

    Hunting-wise, I doubt you'll find much utility for them as expansion is almost non-existent. You might find them handy for, say, euthanizing a Chrysler. In the 70s we shot them into various discarded items for ad-hoc experiments.

    I recall the bullet tips were painted black on W.W.II era AP rounds.
    Gloria: "65 percent of the people murdered in the last 10 years were killed by hand guns"
    Archie Bunker: "would it make you feel better, little girl, if they was pushed outta windows?"

    http://www.moviewavs.com/TV_Shows/Al...he_Family.html

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Ammo: legal or illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by bert View Post
    At the range sighting in the 30.06 for future hunting trips. I was approached by another shooter and asked if I'd be interested in buying Army Surplus armor piercing bullets. I know army surplus bullets of that era have corrosive powder and if I would buy some I would fire one time, or pull the bullet and reload the cases. Whatever I had time to do. 2 questions: is it legal to own, buy, or sell armor piercing bullets. And what would be a reasonable price per each? I know they are steel bullets because they are magnetic and the primers are painted "red".
    There is no such thing as 'corrosive powder'. You're thinking of 'corrosive primers'. You can determine if military ammo is corrosive by referring to the cmp list here. If you buy corrosive ammo and reload, you can disassemble, replace primer with non-corrosive primer, and reload the same powder & projectile for a perfectly non-corrosive round.

    As already posted its legal to possess AP. Check your range rules if they allow you to shoot it.

    "Red" on primers is simply the waterproofing sealant that's applied to most all GI ammo - it does not indicate the type of projectile. AP ammo has a painted black tip on the nose of the projectile.

    Earliest non_corrosive 30-06 AP headstamps (US manufacture) -
    .30-'06 AP:
    FA 52
    TW 53
    LC 53
    SL 53
    WRA 55
    Last edited by tl_3237; August 6th, 2009 at 09:31 PM.
    IANAL

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Ammo: legal or illegal

    I just don't get the big taboo with the word "Corrosive". The only time a person would need to worry about ammo being corrosive is if they are of the type to shoot a gun today and then clean it three weeks from now, or whenever they get the urge. Those are the people who will experience negative effects from corrosive ammo.

    If you are like me and clean your guns the same day, you won't have a problem. If you are still worried, then carry a small cleaning kit to the range and give the gun a cursery run through with some solvent before you head home. Then later that night you can do a full on cleaning. I've never had any problems shooting corrosive ammo.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Ammo: legal or illegal

    I know the ammo is corrossive. Whether it's the primer or whatever. And I do know it is armor piercing. I would never shoot it at "The Range" without permission. Also it is illegal in Pennsylvania to hunt with any ammo that is magnetic. I could be mistaken about the color on the primer. But I was told that military ammo primers have different colors for application. Armor piercing, tracers, etc. I can't back up those statements. I'm only interested in the legality in PA. I haven't seen armor piercing bullets listed on forums like gunbroker,gunsamerica, or the like. I did see tracer bullets advertized.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Ammo: legal or illegal

    years ago I bought 30 06 AP black tip from J and G sales. I think they were/are in AZ. They were FN head stamp and were corrosive. I shot them all a long time ago(approx 10-15 years). I cleaned the gun well the day I shot it. With a garand you need to clean the gas system as well. Hot soapy water then I flushed it with WD and dried it and cleaned it like normal. It was a pain in the ass but it was cheap. I did the same with 303 but it wasnt AP just corrosive. I had no ill effects from the corrosive ammo one bit.

    I will tell you my gun was never cleaner then thoses days!!!! You could eat off them. LOL

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ammo: legal or illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by bert View Post
    I know the ammo is corrossive. Whether it's the primer or whatever. And I do know it is armor piercing. I would never shoot it at "The Range" without permission. Also it is illegal in Pennsylvania to hunt with any ammo that is magnetic. I could be mistaken about the color on the primer. But I was told that military ammo primers have different colors for application. Armor piercing, tracers, etc. I can't back up those statements. I'm only interested in the legality in PA. I haven't seen armor piercing bullets listed on forums like gunbroker,gunsamerica, or the like. I did see tracer bullets advertized.
    I seriously doubt this so called armor piercing ammo would have a lead tip, so common sense should dictate that it isn't able to be used for hunting purposes.

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