.223 is a bad round for home defense. (not!)

[TXDMERC73]

I think too the .223 is a great HD round if its coming form an AR15,i would choose an AR15 over a shotgun- reasons the shotty kicks too hard and it dont hold as much rounds, i feel more confident with my Bushmaster holding 30-55gr FMJs then a shotty with only 6 or 7 buckshot rounds. i feel the .223 is best overall in accuracy , less recoil ,good one shot stop.

[synergy]

I think too the .223 is a great HD round if its coming form an AR15,i would choose an AR15 over a shotgun- reasons the shotty kicks too hard and it dont hold as much rounds, i feel more confident with my Bushmaster holding 30-55gr FMJs then a shotty with only 6 or 7 buckshot rounds. i feel the .223 is best overall in accuracy , less recoil ,good one shot stop.

Agreed on all points.

The other thing I can appreciate, is that you are only responsible for 1 projectile at a time. You're not launching 9 potentially lethal projectiles at a time, which can spread and ricochet downrange.

1 miss with a .223 is 1 projectile unaccounted for. 1 miss with buckshot is 8 or 9 unaccounted for. Just how I look at it.

[Emptymag]

Attention posters. Leave the attitude at the door.

Discuss, debate, whatever, but don't keep pushing buttons to try to get a reaction.


Thank you.
The staff

[lmj301]

i have thought about a .357, or .44mag lever action rifle for home def.

16"bbl load with .38s or .44sp. very short, for in house, looks like the hero from the wild west if in court (come on a lot of the jury watched lone ranger, bonanza, and old b movies, and the lever action wasn't "scary and black"), good camp gun.

also has the lever action sound sort of like racking a shotty.

[synergy]

i have thought about a .357, or .44mag lever action rifle for home def.

16"bbl load with .38s or .44sp. very short, for in house, looks like the hero from the wild west if in court (come on a lot of the jury watched lone ranger, bonanza, and old b movies, and the lever action wasn't "scary and black"), good camp gun.

also has the lever action sound sort of like racking a shotty.

Those rounds are going to slice through walls like nothing else.

A .357Mag out of a 16" bbl is getting close to 7.62x39 ballistics. I would expect it to penetrate walls worse than any of the pistol rounds shown.

It'll do a great job on threats, though!

[Lycanthrope]

I think the AR is great for HD, although I tend to prefer the shotgun more. I live in a brick house with no kids so shooting through the plaster is no big deal. The primary reason I prefer the shotgun is that I can mount the gun in near darkness and use a target focus to hit targets quickly due to a youth full of wingshooting. I'm fast with an AR, but the shotgun is a blink of the eye in terms of target acquisition due to better stock fitting and 25 years of snap shooting grouse.

Pick the tool that works best for you.

Lycansplittinghairsthrope

[lmj301]

agreed, it would slice through walls like butter!!

not something i worry about as there is only one wall in my little house then the kids bedroom. the 9mm that i have is a last resort anyway.

just always sounded like a good compromise for a HD (that is what we are talking about anyway) gun.

light, powerfull, little recoil (compaired to a shotgunanyway), compact, not scary for court, holds 10 rnds (4 more than my SG), wide variety of ammo choice. can have same cal as handgun. can also use soft lead rounds to deform quickly.

i kind of chuckle that people may want multiple 30 rnd mags to use indoors. i cannot imagine needing that many rounds for SD. and then are worried about over pen of exterior walls....just a little suprising

[Legion_Prime]

Wow this thread really took off today while I was tt work *LOL*

That is why I won't ever recommend shooting birdshot at people who want to kill you.

I know that, I was just saying that's what they were implying in the video. I'm still gonna pick my AR every time.

Let me get this straight. Something that will punch through a steel plate will dissipate it's energy after 4 sheets of 1/2 inch drywall. And, something that can only knock over steel plates is lethal after going through 6 sheets. I am not an expert so I'll have to take that information at face value. A lot of people do underestimate the power a 9mm has.

That's because pistol rounds and rifle rounds are apples and oranges (generally speaking). Pistol rounds depend on controlled expansion to open a wound channel, Rifle rounds depend on fragmentation. The rifle round has better energy transfer and opens a greater channel because it tumbles and then breaks apart while a pistol round (especially FMJ vs HP) just pushes on through

WOW, I have just been reading about wound ballistics of actual cases. These quacks shooting high velocity ammo at short ranges might be on to something.

The 223 and the 556, rounds that I have dismissed for being to small, are nasty at close range. I don't understand why yet, but apparently at close range they penetrate better than frangible ammo but come apart like frangible ammo dissipating it's energy in an explosive like affect.

At longer ranges the bullet will maintain it's integrity and punch a little hole right on through unless it contacts bone a tumbles but that is not what this thread is about.

That all depends on velocity. Rifle rounds require a certain FPS to reliably fragment in a target. This is affected by the powder load BC and barrel length. If you want to reach out and touch someone you're gonna want an 18-20" barrel on your AR, in MOUT a shorter barrel will be fine as the average engagment distance is greatly reduced.

i kind of chuckle that people may want multiple 30 rnd mags to use indoors. i cannot imagine needing that many rounds for SD. and then are worried about over pen of exterior walls....just a little suprising

First off what does magazine capacity have to do with over/penetration. Second you seem not to have heard of the trend, especially along the southern borders, of HI's by multiple attackers. If you have a dozen guys and all you have is your 9 shells of double aught that still leaves a minimum of 3 now very pissed off assailants to deal with. If you have your PMAG (no need to download these bad boys) you have enough rounds to double tap each of them before a tactical reload (ie rounds left over). I see no reason to ridicule people who are preparing to ensure they can adequately protect themselves and those in their home. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it or plan for the best, prepare for the worst. Take your pick.

[Lycanthrope]

That all depends on velocity. Rifle rounds require a certain FPS to reliably fragment in a target. This is affected by the powder load BC and barrel length. If you want to reach out and touch someone you're gonna want an 18-20" barrel on your AR, in MOUT a shorter barrel will be fine as the average engagment distance is greatly reduced.

I see this a lot, but it mostly only applies to military ball ammo. Most bullet performance in rifles will depend on bullet design. There are several hunting and self defense rounds that will fragment easily at much lower velocity than is quoted for military ball and will extend the range greatly. Bullet weight is also not a good indicator of fragmentation as lighter weight, bonded bullets will penetrate farther than heavier lead core soft points.

Lycanlovestryingnewbulletsthrope

[Legion_Prime]

Yeah I know there's more to it that what I said, but I was exhausted and just trying to cover the basics there. While weight is not the best indicator of fragmentation however the longer the bullet is the easier it will pitch and break up so the two are not completly unrelated as in a bore. When you add weight (barring the adding of different materials) you can really only expand the bullet lengthways, so while not directly related in all cases there can be some correlation.
This of course does not include HP type rifle rounds which are designed to not fragment. Thanks for the extra info.