PICS denial and marijuana possession

[jford]

New user, first post. Went today to purchase handgun, was denied by PICS. Have spent better part of the day reviewing these forums and PA code to understand why. I have a conviction for possession of marijuana under 2 ounces in Texas 32-years ago. That conviction was/is a misdemeanor under Texas law and carries a maximum sentence of up to one year.

As I understand PA Uniform Firearms Act, section 6105, I can be prohibited from purchasing a firearm if I have "...been convicted of an offense under the... Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, or any equivalent Federal statute or equivalent statute of any other state, that may be punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding two years."

It is my understanding that my conviction, which carries a maximum sentence of one year, does not disqualify me from gun ownership. I welcome other informed opinions on this, but it seems that my conviction does not meet the exclusion criteria.

I am less sure about being excluded from an LTCF. I understand that it is governed by PA Uniform Firearms Act, section 6109. Part E, section 1, item ii clearly states that "An individual who has been convicted of an offense under the ...Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act." is prohibited from being issued a LTCF. It does not mention equivalent statutes or other state/federal law.

PA Uniform Firearms Act, section 6109. Part E, section 1, item iii also notes the enumerated items from 6105, but these items, contained in Section 6105(b) do not mention the drug violations. Does this mean violations of the PA act specifically excluding other states statutes?? Would my conviction prevent me from getting a LTCF? Again, I welcome your informed opinions on this.

Thanks for your input!

[God's Country]

Well about the only thing you can do is first get a good lawyer, and contest the pics denial. You don't need a lawyer to challange the denial, but considering your situation an attorney would be a good idea to have your ducks in a row.

[jford]

I'm unclear why anyone thinks a lawyer is necessary at this point. I'm also disappointed at the lack of response to this thread. I would have expected this forum to be a bit more helpful. I understand that this topic has been discussed several times on the forums and I read every message in every thread prior to posting my question. I felt that my questions were not answered in prior posts and that the experience and knowledge of this group might be a resource to help me understand the Act and my rights. Apparently not.

At any rate, I will share my experience thus far in the hopes that it may be useful and/or encouraging to others who have similar questions or experiences. I filed my challenge and I've been in touch with Harrisburg. Cristal Shipe is actually (surprisingly) very helpful. As I expected, none of my priors infringe on my right to purchase/own firearms. The issue is really that criminal records usually do not specify the specifics about the charge and disposition, a little research is necessary. That is Cristal Shipes' job and the reason that some gun purchase screens result in a "research" or "undetermined" status.

What caused my PICS screen to be stopped dead in its' tracks was something so unusual and beyond normal that you may find it funny (sad, but funny, nonetheless). In 1995, a disgruntled employee filed a frivolous misdemeanor charge against me as the Director of a corporation in Virginia. We ended up in court and I was found Not Guilty by the judge. Life went on and in 2005, Virginia computerized the records and destroyed the original case file and disposition. Unfortunately, when the $6 an hour clerk keyed in the case, they entered the disposition as "Not Guilty by reason of insanity". I kid you not. Just my dumb luck.

Now, as most of you know, anyone who has been legally declared insane cannot possibly purchase a gun ANYWHERE in the U.S. Luckily, I had an occasion in 2003 to request a certified copy of the warrant and disposition of this case and I still possess that certified copy with an original signature of the Court Clerk. Talk about dumb luck.

Once again, I have to say that the PICS staff in Harrisburg are being wonderful about this and have done everything possible to assist me with this. It does look like I have to go to Virginia to present my copy of the disposition to the court clerk, but they have also been very apologetic and supportive, so that makes the trip okay. Once they have corrected the record, I am good to go.

I also stopped by the gun store where I did the original screen and just updated the owner about my situation. We had a good laugh and I'll definitely be going back there to purchase. I have every expectation that this will be permanently cleared up in a couple of weeks and I'll be getting that clearance letter in the mail.

Getting an unexpected denial and having to go through a process like this can be tedious and frustrating. If you find yourself in such a situation, get a notepad and pen, get on the Internet and the phone, be very courteous, and make a note of every court, county, and person you speak with. Details make this situation easy for everyone. Further, while Cristal Shipe does a great job, you are only ONE case among many, so take the initiative to do some follow-up work yourself. She will appreciate it and your resolution will come sooner as a result.

[camper]

I'm unclear why anyone thinks a lawyer is necessary at this point.

You need a lawyer because this:

As I understand PA Uniform Firearms Act, section 6105, I can be prohibited from purchasing a firearm if I have "...been convicted of an offense under the... Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, or any equivalent Federal statute or equivalent statute of any other state, that may be punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding two years."

Is showing up on PICS from 32 years ago and is preventing you from buying a gun. What YOU have to say about it has far less weight then what your LAWYER has to say.

Though, I'm not a lawyer myself, so what I'm saying carries no weight.

camper

[lcompton]

Good morning, jford.

What caused my PICS screen to be stopped dead in its' tracks was something so unusual and beyond normal that you may find it funny (sad, but funny, nonetheless). In 1995, a disgruntled employee filed a frivolous misdemeanor charge against me as the Director of a corporation in Virginia. We ended up in court and I was found Not Guilty by the judge. Life went on and in 2005, Virginia computerized the records and destroyed the original case file and disposition. Unfortunately, when the $6 an hour clerk keyed in the case, they entered the disposition as "Not Guilty by reason of insanity". I kid you not. Just my dumb luck.

That's quite a story, but believe it or not, I am able to relate somewhat. Let me share with you an anecdote about an experience in my past.

Back in 1990 (this is about four years before I started gun collecting) I received a credit card solicitation from A.T.& T. Universal Visa. Recall, the late 1980s and into 1990 was a time when companies were sending credit card solicitations by the bushel. It was summer and I had just moved back to Pennsylvania.

Anyway, the A.T.& T. Universal Visa (Visa) had a competitive offer (i.e. no annual fee and low interest rate) so I decided to accept the solicitation, fill out the form (no widescale public Internet back then) and mail it in. About two weeks later I received a rejection letter from Visa giving some cryptic and indecipherable rejection code. It was the first time I had ever been rejected for a credit card so I was naturally curious. Listed on the rejection letter was the contact information for one credit reporting agency, which supplied information used to reach the rejection decision. I don't remember which credit reporting agency it was, but I contacted them to learn more. Are you ready for this?

The credit reporting agency advised me that the reason I was rejected a new Visa credit card was because I was deceased. Imagine my surprise at learning that I am dead. Naturally, I protested the report of my untimely demise and argued that rumors of my departure from this Earth were greatly exaggerated.

To make a very long story short, it took me about six months to get this mess straightened out and for me to rejoin the land of the living. I was 27-years-old at the time and didn't have the sense of humor that I have grown into 20 years later. Looking back on it, I kind of wish I had some fun with it. In the moment, I was mostly annoyed that I had to deal with the whole mess.

I never did receive a satisfactory explanation as to what went wrong. Keep in mind that credit reporting bureaus were even less customer interfacing back then than they are today (I realize that is hard to believe, but it's true.) There were also no companies selling credit monitoring services (actually, TRW Credentials Service might have existed back then, but that's about it.) Most of the work I had to do to clear this up was via telephone and postal mail.

During the drama, I would sometimes introduce myself to people as, "Hello, my name is Lisa A. Compton, and I'm dead." Looking back on it, it is funny.

I feel your pain. You are very fortunate that you had a copy of the case record in your possession. It could only have been much worse if you had not retained a copy of the record since Virginia destroyed their original documents.

Good luck with your effort!

[jford]

You need a lawyer because this:

As I understand PA Uniform Firearms Act, section 6105, I can be prohibited from purchasing a firearm if I have "...been convicted of an offense under the... Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, or any equivalent Federal statute or equivalent statute of any other state, that may be punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding two years."

Is showing up on PICS from 32 years ago and is preventing you from buying a gun. What YOU have to say about it has far less weight then what your LAWYER has to say.

Thanks for the response. Maybe I wasn't clear enough with my original post. The point I was trying to make is that I have never been "...convicted of an offense under the... Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, or any equivalent Federal statute or equivalent statute of any other state, that may be punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding two years." and I was trying to ask whether the statement was inclusive of all state drug laws or only PA. I now understand that it is only the PA act and is limited by the max punishment of two years.

I appreciate and respect your position, but I respectfully disagree with the idea that what I have to say has less weight than my lawyers. My experience supports my belief that a simple citizen can, with a little research and reading, understand the law and advocate for oneself. Certainly, there is a time and purpose for a lawyer and I have used many of them for many purposes.

I have also engaged courts, judges, and MANY government entities on my own and others behalf quite successfully. I was simply stating my non-lawyer, simple citizen understanding of the law in a discussion forum and asking for feedback on that understanding. I clearly understand that legislators make law, courts interpret it, and LEO enforces it.

I think that some people are too quick to involve a lawyer and that sometimes results in a messy and costly outcome that could have been resolved in a less confrontational manner. That said, I also subscribe to the adage that "a person who represents themselves in court has a fool for an attorney".

[jford]

Good morning, jford.

That's quite a story, but believe it or not, I am able to relate somewhat. Let me share with you an anecdote about an experience in my past.

Lisa,

Thank you for sharing. Your story reminded me of an e-mail I sent to my brother during this experience; the subject line read: "At least I'm not dead, only crazy!"

I really appreciate your supportive response. thank you.

[jford]

Just an update on my situation; Nightmare is over. I am no longer insane! I should be getting my clearance in the next week or so.

I was able to resolve this situation without travelling to Virginia. My deepest appreciation goes out to the outstanding Virginia State Police, who were kind enough to save me a trip to Richmond and accepted the faxed copy of my case disposition as adequate evidence to correct my record. The Court Clerk of the General District Court in Virginia was also exceptionally nice and supportive.

I must also give credit once more to Cristal Shipe in the PICS Department of the Firearms Division of the Pa. State Police. She was quite responsive and very helpful.

Thanks also for the supportive and encouraging responses from the forum members.