OC/ Disarmed question

[pctristan]

I was doing my usual cruise of the forums and after reading a few things on the OC "need to know" post, a question popped into my head...

If an Officer stops me and attempts to disarm me (cause not relevant) and in the process the gun goes off...hitting me. Now, not all guns have a manual safety and I don't expect all Officers to know my specific gun. How do they disarm you? Is this reasonably safe for them to do (I guess as opposed to them feeling unsafe the answer is yes?)?

Would the Officer be held responsible for shooting me with my own sidearm? What if he shot himself?

I don't think I've ever read a story where this happened, but I have heard of the owner having to explain to the Officer how to operate their sidearm.

Just a passing thought...

Tris

[AxiTech]

Did you happen to see the video of the woman in Florida who made the mistake of allowing a LEO to rear-end her car?
We all carry recorders just for this instance. If you don't have evidence of them handling your firearm when it discharges, chances are the report will say you were handling your firearm when it discharged.
I'm not rying to say all cops are likely to do this. Think about it this way though. How many accidental/negligent discharges have you heard of in the civilian population? Same question: Law Enforcement population? Proof, right there, that cops are more apt to shoot you with your gun than you are.

[granuale]

How do they disarm you?

There is no one way. Some ask for you to hand it over, others will try and draw it themselves.

Is this reasonably safe for them to do (I guess as opposed to them feeling unsafe the answer is yes?)?

Hell no! The vast majority of police only have training on the firearms they carry for duty use (usually Glocks). Cops, just like everyone else should not fuck around with a loaded weapon they don't know how to safely operate and make safe. For that reason unless there's a damn good reason not to, they should just let you hold on to the firearm while they write up your speeding ticket.

Would the Officer be held responsible for shooting me with my own sidearm? What if he shot himself?

He is certainly responsible if he shoots either one of of you. If he admitted doing so, you wouldn't have a problem. If he lied and said you did so obviously you will be totally fucked unless many witnesses or video show otherwise.

[CommonHighrise]

There is no one way. Some ask for you to hand it over, others will try and draw it themselves.

My suggestion here is that if the LEO wants you to hand them the gun, undo your belt, and remove the entire holster, handing over the firearm still inside. If the LEO wants to unholster it themselves, take a moment to very politely request that they allow you to remove your belt, and keep the gun holstered.

This serves two purposes.

If the holster covers the trigger, hammer, or both, theres less chance of a ND.

If the holster covers the serial number, it will make it harder or impossible for the officer to run it against their illegal database.

[granuale]

My suggestion here is that if the LEO wants you to hand them the gun, undo your belt, and remove the entire holster, handing over the firearm still inside.

I usually carry a J frame with a Barami hip-grip, so this is not an option for me. I have refused a request from a Philadelphia cop to give him the gun and told him I would get out of the car and he could take it off me if he wanted, but no way was I drawing a gun in front of him. He decided we would just leave it where it was in my pants not hurting anyone.

[pctristan]

My suggestion here is that if the LEO wants you to hand them the gun, undo your belt, and remove the entire holster, handing over the firearm still inside. If the LEO wants to unholster it themselves, take a moment to very politely request that they allow you to remove your belt, and keep the gun holstered.

This serves two purposes.

If the holster covers the trigger, hammer, or both, theres less chance of a ND.

If the holster covers the serial number, it will make it harder or impossible for the officer to run it against their illegal database.

I like this idea, I never even thought of that. I really just feel uncomfortable unholstering it myself (why a cop who is afraid of it would let you draw it is beyond me) and maybe they'd be less inclined to draw it themselves with a polite reminder.

[JCWohlschlag]

If the holster covers the serial number, it will make it harder or impossible for the officer to run it against their illegal database.

Wouldn’t it also make the examination of the gun’s serial number unlawful? Arizona v. Hicks, to paraphrase, ruled that moving or manipulating an object places a search outside of the plain view exception.

The purpose of the police taking temporary custody of your firearm is for “officer safety”, and the firearm still being in the holster does not hinder that safety in any way. Removing the firearm from the holster to read the serial number should be just as unlawful as removing the grips of your revolver, removing the side saddle from your Mossberg, removing the light/laser from the accessory rail of your Glock, or peeling off the embossed tape label that is covering the serial number plate to read the serial number.

[YBNORMAL]

or peeling off the embossed tape label that is covering the serial number plate to read the serial number.

Is this common? covering up #####s?

[CommonHighrise]

Is this common? covering up #####s?

Theres a thread on it around here, well buried. Some people go for it, some dont. Electrical tape, 'grip' tape, or the aforementioned embossed tape* are all examples of concealing the serial number from police, while not defacing or altering it to stay legal.

*I really like this idea, wonder if I can find a machine that prints it small enough you could fit extended text over it, such as;

"Unlawful to remove without owner's permission."
"Remove before takeoff."
"No. SN4U."
"Zombie Suppression Device."

[levib]

Hm, my S&W 640's serial number requires the cylinder to be open to read. Would that count as plain view if I had to open it to make it safe on request?