The Legalization of Marijuana - Serious Discussion/Poll

[Derek]

Alright, so I had an interesting discussion with a couple friends of mine and a few older family members the other day about this hot topic. Being a fairly conservative community here at PAFOA, but also one deeply rooted in personal rights, I wanted to poll the audience. I did a search for this under as many keywords as I could think of and could not find anything.

We were discussing the legalization of marijuana for both medicinal use and for recreational use. Discussing the health affects, mental and physical affects, social affects, economic affects, etc.

What would it do for government to legalize, tax, and regulate it. Like the taxation of cigarettes and alcohol, how the money would help the government (especially Kalifornia) to have extra money in the budget. Could lead to fewer income taxes because of the extra and “new” taxes on marijuana. The regulation would lead to higher quality (pun intended) crops, which would encourage people to purchase the taxed crop. By purchasing the taxed crop they are putting money into the big machine which could lead to our “mandatory taxes” being lowered.

Similar to during prohibition, the "war on drugs" is feeding a huge criminal underworld that would be undermined, or at very least reduced considerably, if the most widely used illegal drug in the US was legalized. The higher quality regulated crops would also help to eliminate the demand for lesser quality "drug trade" crops, and ensure uncut or unlaced products for the consumer. You would undermine an entire world of dealers, as well as cut a massive budget down that has seemingly done very little. We spend millions (probably billions) on “fighting drugs” that yield very few real results. You could slow down what is today’s version of “organized crime” and cut some fat out of the government spending. Seems win-win to me. Not to mention the power the drug dealers would lose in communities. Now granted they still will have hard drugs and find their power and control over the neighborhoods somewhere else, but it would at least be a hardship for them and probably take a number of them out of the game. The suburban drug dealers, white collar kids dealing at colleges and in cookie-cutter developments would SOL.

The health affects are always a concern. If you look at some legal substances that have scientifically proven negative health affects, and you look at the health affects from the use of marijuana, they are not very different. You have the risk of lung cancer from smoking any substance. Addiction is a huge human trait; people can be addicted to anything. The addiction and health affects from marijuana use to not seem to be even as bad as those from prolonged alcohol and tobacco use. Sure, there are side affects, but there are side affects from eating too much red meat, drinking too much soda, and fried food and you don’t see the government saying we can’t enjoy those things. There is the argument for marijuana being a "gateway drug" but (personal opinion here) I believe that is a big smelly, steamy load of BS. The use of marijuana does not make a person want to start doing lines of cocaine or heroine. The craving for a "better" high is a personality trait. Those are the same people who instead of enjoying the motorcycle cruise (akin to smoking pot) have to go out and speed through traffic in the triple digits doing wheelies (crack). They will never be satisfied, but it is not because they once took a bong hit that suddenly they are addicted to hard drugs.

Obviously with the legalization there would need to be laws and socially accepted behavior surrounding marijuana. Minimum age to purchase, licensed to sell, etc. It is assumed, like driving impaired from alcohol, there needs to be a system for dealing with those operating machinery/vehicles while impaired by marijuana. This is one are we were stumped for a system or solution. You can’t arrest anyone who giggles while driving, is hungry while driving, or whose allergies are bothering them. Public smoking laws, like open container laws can be put in place. It is not hard to determine if someone smoking marijuana or a cigarette. Obviously similar business and school regulations can be put into place, because as you shouldn’t show up for work drunk, you shouldn’t show up high either. Things like this seem common sense to me, and while you aren’t going to have 100% adherence to laws, legislation and business policies will rule in a similar fashion to those existing for legal substances.

Obviously this is all theory, ideas, and brainstorming...it is not 100% perfect or accurate.

My final thoughts on the issue… Disregarding existing laws which are “human created” and not “universal rules”… What is the difference from an experienced and honored surgeon coming home from stressful day at work and smoking a J while watching some TV, and that same surgeon coming home and having some beers, whiskey on the rocks, or a couple glasses of wine and watching some TV. “Because it is illegal” or “Because it is (morally) wrong” are not valid answers. The first is invalid because of the first sentence of the question. The latter is invalid because while you may thing it is “wrong”, just like drinking or smoking tobacco, no one is making you do anything and the great thing about this country is we are free (or more free) to live our own lives. What is the difference? I just want to know literally what would the difference aside from the type of intoxication. I don’t see one at all. The next day that surgeon will get up and go save more lives. I’d opt for the beers, but I can’t say another person is wrong for smoking pot instead.

Bottom line for me is: Legalize it, regulate it, tax the every-living f*** out of it. It is not really more harmful than tobacco and alcohol to the person using. I feel it would reduce some “organized crime” and save the government money on the “war on drugs”. While I choose not to smoke, I don’t think it is “wrong”, I know plenty of 100% functioning people who smoke regularly that range from college students to those with 6 figure salaries; All who function daily/in scoiety far better than “functioning alcoholics”. Even if I felt it morally wrong, from my standpoint no one is forcing me to do it and therefore who am I to tell someone else what they can do with a substance equal or less harmful that booze and cigs. It’s an archaic law, which has been outdated in modern society, and with the proper implementation could do us some good.

I would like to keep this discussion as polite as possible, please no mud-slinging, name calling, etc. I'm not looking to know if anyone hear uses or not, I just want to know what your opinion on legalization is and why. You get the idea, we are all big kids here and we are all entitled to our own opinions and decisions, let’s try not getting too preachy. My request is just please remain civil.

Sorry for the long-winded post, it’s a lot to read but a topic I feel is particularly interesting. Discuss in a civilized manner and/or answer the poll. Poll is of course anonymous.

ETA: I would make one more request that unless completely warranted please do not neg rep responses in this thread just because you may not agree with them. I try to be one of those people who can have a lengthy discussions about anything with respect to everyone having thier own opinion.

~ Derek

[unloved]

My only problem with this topic.

...tax the every-living f*** out of it.

We need to (somehow, I don't know how) stop the ridiculous, outrageous spending of government. NOT constantly suggest more taxes. If Big Daddy Government wasn't inappropriately invading every conceivable aspect of life it wouldn't be necessary to tax everything to pay for the meddling.

[CarolinaGuy]

My only problem with this topic.


We need to (somehow, I don't know how) stop the ridiculous, outrageous spending of government. NOT constantly suggest more taxes. If Big Daddy Government wasn't inappropriately invading every conceivable aspect of life it wouldn't be necessary to tax everything to pay for the meddling.

No shit. Where the plain "just legalize it" option?

[Derek]

Well I would love to just say legalize it and not tax it but realistically it just isn't going to happen. I'm all for less taxes and less spending.

ETA: I can't edit the poll, sorry. I would add a "Yes, but just legalize it untaxed. Legally, treat it like alcohol and tobacco." option if I could.

~ Derek

[unloved]

which could lead to our “mandatory taxes” being lowered

Never, not in a million years. We don't need more government revenue. Whenever they get their hands on another source of revenue, they spend it plus more on shit like the war on the drugs to 'protect' us from ourselves.

[Derek]

Never, not in a million years. We don't need more government revenue. Whenever they get their hands on another source of revenue, they spend it plus more on shit like the war on the drugs to 'protect' us from ourselves.

It's a nice thought at least, I know the chances are slim to none.

~ Derek

[Philbert]

The poll is missing my preferred option: decriminalize simple possession, but keep dealing and possession of bulk quantities illegal. This system appears to be working well in Portugal.

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...893946,00.html

[son of the revolution]

Alright, so I had an interesting discussion with a couple friends of mine and a few older family members the other day about this hot topic. Being a fairly conservative community here at PAFOA, but also one deeply rooted in personal rights, I wanted to poll the audience. I did a search for this under as many keywords as I could think of and could not find anything.

We were discussing the legalization of marijuana for both medicinal use and for recreational use. Discussing the health affects, mental and physical affects, social affects, economic affects, etc.

What would it do for government to legalize, tax, and regulate it. Like the taxation of cigarettes and alcohol, how the money would help the government (especially Kalifornia) to have extra money in the budget. Could lead to fewer income taxes because of the extra and “new” taxes on marijuana. The regulation would lead to higher quality (pun intended) crops, which would encourage people to purchase the taxed crop. By purchasing the taxed crop they are putting money into the big machine which could lead to our “mandatory taxes” being lowered.

Similar to during prohibition, the "war on drugs" is feeding a huge criminal underworld that would be undermined, or at very least reduced considerably, if the most widely used illegal drug in the US was legalized. The higher quality regulated crops would also help to eliminate the demand for lesser quality "drug trade" crops, and ensure uncut or unlaced products for the consumer. You would undermine an entire world of dealers, as well as cut a massive budget down that has seemingly done very little. We spend millions (probably billions) on “fighting drugs” that yield very few real results. You could slow down what is today’s version of “organized crime” and cut some fat out of the government spending. Seems win-win to me. Not to mention the power the drug dealers would lose in communities. Now granted they still will have hard drugs and find their power and control over the neighborhoods somewhere else, but it would at least be a hardship for them and probably take a number of them out of the game. The suburban drug dealers, white collar kids dealing at colleges and in cookie-cutter developments would SOL.

The health affects are always a concern. If you look at some legal substances that have scientifically proven negative health affects, and you look at the health affects from the use of marijuana, they are not very different. You have the risk of lung cancer from smoking any substance. Addiction is a huge human trait; people can be addicted to anything. The addiction and health affects from marijuana use to not seem to be even as bad as those from prolonged alcohol and tobacco use. Sure, there are side affects, but there are side affects from eating too much red meat, drinking too much soda, and fried food and you don’t see the government saying we can’t enjoy those things. There is the argument for marijuana being a "gateway drug" but (personal opinion here) I believe that is a big smelly, steamy load of BS. The use of marijuana does not make a person want to start doing lines of cocaine or heroine. The craving for a "better" high is a personality trait. Those are the same people who instead of enjoying the motorcycle cruise (akin to smoking pot) have to go out and speed through traffic in the triple digits doing wheelies (crack). They will never be satisfied, but it is not because they once took a bong hit that suddenly they are addicted to hard drugs.

Obviously with the legalization there would need to be laws and socially accepted behavior surrounding marijuana. Minimum age to purchase, licensed to sell, etc. It is assumed, like driving impaired from alcohol, there needs to be a system for dealing with those operating machinery/vehicles while impaired by marijuana. This is one are we were stumped for a system or solution. You can’t arrest anyone who giggles while driving, is hungry while driving, or whose allergies are bothering them. Public smoking laws, like open container laws can be put in place. It is not hard to determine if someone smoking marijuana or a cigarette. Obviously similar business and school regulations can be put into place, because as you shouldn’t show up for work drunk, you shouldn’t show up high either. Things like this seem common sense to me, and while you aren’t going to have 100% adherence to laws, legislation and business policies will rule in a similar fashion to those existing for legal substances.

Obviously this is all theory, ideas, and brainstorming...it is not 100% perfect or accurate.

My final thoughts on the issue… Disregarding existing laws which are “human created” and not “universal rules”… What is the difference from an experienced and honored surgeon coming home from stressful day at work and smoking a J while watching some TV, and that same surgeon coming home and having some beers, whiskey on the rocks, or a couple glasses of wine and watching some TV. “Because it is illegal” or “Because it is (morally) wrong” are not valid answers. The first is invalid because of the first sentence of the question. The latter is invalid because while you may thing it is “wrong”, just like drinking or smoking tobacco, no one is making you do anything and the great thing about this country is we are free (or more free) to live our own lives. What is the difference? I just want to know literally what would the difference aside from the type of intoxication. I don’t see one at all. The next day that surgeon will get up and go save more lives. I’d opt for the beers, but I can’t say another person is wrong for smoking pot instead.

Bottom line for me is: Legalize it, regulate it, tax the every-living f*** out of it. It is not really more harmful than tobacco and alcohol to the person using. I feel it would reduce some “organized crime” and save the government money on the “war on drugs”. While I choose not to smoke, I don’t think it is “wrong”, I know plenty of 100% functioning people who smoke regularly that range from college students to those with 6 figure salaries; All who function daily/in scoiety far better than “functioning alcoholics”. Even if I felt it morally wrong, from my standpoint no one is forcing me to do it and therefore who am I to tell someone else what they can do with a substance equal or less harmful that booze and cigs. It’s an archaic law, which has been outdated in modern society, and with the proper implementation could do us some good.

I would like to keep this discussion as polite as possible, please no mud-slinging, name calling, etc. I'm not looking to know if anyone hear uses or not, I just want to know what your opinion on legalization is and why. You get the idea, we are all big kids here and we are all entitled to our own opinions and decisions, let’s try not getting too preachy. My request is just please remain civil.

Sorry for the long-winded post, it’s a lot to read but a topic I feel is particularly interesting. Discuss in a civilized manner and/or answer the poll. Poll is of course anonymous.

ETA: I would make one more request that unless completely warranted please do not neg rep responses in this thread just because you may not agree with them. I try to be one of those people who can have a lengthy discussions about anything with respect to everyone having thier own opinion.

~ Derek

A FUCKING MEN !!!

This Country learned NOTHING from Prohibition . Legalization for adults , treating it the same as alcohol and tobacco would do WORLDS of good for any number of reasons . Of course all the DEA Agents and local LEO's would have alot less to occupy their time . Then again even thats a good thing , cause they could focus after going for the violent predatory criminals and locking them away .

[Bug44]

[Derek]

Hahaha, Adam...the title of the thread is "Serious Discussion"...