Like acid in my mouth

[FMJ]

Okay, so I'm re-reading the LAW section of our forum and every time I read this particular section below it bothers me a little more. I need to understand why this type of disregard for our rights is permitted, even though illegal!
Am I to understand that the police can break the law anytime they want?? Sort of a "do as I say, not as I do" senerio? If I unknowingly break a law and say" Oh, is that against the law? I had no idea." I indoubtedly will hear the famed reply "Ignorance of the law is not an excuse to violate it."
Yet, people will try telling me the reason these things happen is because police don't know it's the law.

"To summarize, open carry is legal in Pennsylvania without a License To Carry Firearms except in "cities of the first class" (Philadelphia) and vehicles where a License To Carry Firearms is required to do so.

With that said, we would like to point out that there is much debate among firearm owners about whether openly carrying firearms is really a good idea. While we will leave that choice to the individual we will state that in many urban areas (namely Philadelphia) doing so will draw unwanted attention from law enforcement that may include (but not be limited to) the following repercussions:

Being stopped and questioned by law enforcement. Umm..okay.. not so bad.
Having your License To Carry Firearms seized and sent back for revocation. What? WTF is that?? On what grounds can this be done?!?
Being arrested either improperly or for other charges like disturbing the peace or creating a public nuisance. Also known as the "John Nobel effect"

While this may not happen should you choose to carry openly, many urban law enforcement officers we have talked to have expressed a very negative opinion towards the idea. Some have suggested that law enforcement will do everything in their power to make your life difficult should you choose to."

So, correct me if I am wrong but this above statement more accurately reads...
"Some have suggested that law enforcement will violate your rights because thier own opinions of openly carrying a firearm gives them the sense of entitlement to abuse thier power and opress you to the point that you simply give up that right to avoid further harrassment."

I'm not asking why... the reason they do it is obvious. What I want to know is HOW they are able to do it without consequence?

[US Militiaman]

"Some have suggested that law enforcement will violate your rights because their own opinions of openly carrying a firearm gives them the sense of entitlement to abuse thier power and opress you to the point that you simply give up that right to avoid further harrassment."

For some of them, being a police officer is a power trip...they are the law, and therefore they consider themselves to be above it. Their sign of respect is their badge and their ability to deal out force...you are encroaching on that. When you open carry a firearm, you are encroaching on their respect, taking away the fact that they are the only ones that can settle disputes, arguments, and deadly situations...so they may harass you for it in an attempt to bully you into respecting them...

What I want to know ifs HOW they are able to do it without consequence?

The same way cities can pass resolutions that are clearly illegal...they are assuming that you don't have or won't take the time and personal expense to fight it, and therefore there is no check on it.

There are many things in this country that make me sick these days, but the double standard for citizens and law enforcement is one of the bigger ones...there is a complete disregard for the Constitution, states' rights, federal law, and the rights of the common man...just one more step towards an authoritarian regime

This is just my $0.02...

[shefearsnothing]

I need to understand why this type of disregard for our rights is permitted, even though illegal!

BECAUSE PEOPLE ALLOW IT. PERIOD.

Ok to be fair, not everyone. It's just that not everyone is comfortable standing up (for whatever reason; be it personal things or people in their lives, situation at the time, or just their overall non confrontational personality) and then there are others who are just completely ignorant of their rights.

[FMJ]

..then there are others who are just completely ignorant of their rights.

Okay, I can buy into some being ignorant...but I can't buy it from those who are actually carrying a firearm.

[AKross]

BECAUSE PEOPLE ALLOW IT. PERIOD.

Exactly, to the point. If you find something unjust be sure to voice it. You have no choice but to listen to an officers instructions, if he asks you to put on a chicken suit and dance around like an idiot you pretty much have to. You can't run and you can't fight back that would violate the law. Filing a complaint or some sort of civil action is hit and miss alone, but it is far better than just accepting injustice. A thousand people speaking together in a plain voice is more powerful than one person shouting.

[Curmudgeon]

It has already been said, but yes, we allow it. We can have whatever government and society that we, collectively, are willing to take a stand to achieve.

So, why is it all so out of control?

I like this quote by Fred Reed...

"For some, freedom matters. For most, prosperity suffices."

The ruling elite figured a long time ago... keep 'em fat, warm, and happy, and you can get away with murder.

[WhiteShadow]

I used to be able to remember those days...not anymore.

[FMJ]

It has already been said, but yes, we allow it. We can have whatever government and society that we, collectively, are willing to take a stand to achieve.

So, why is it all so out of control?

I like this quote by Fred Reed...

"For some, freedom matters. For most, prosperity suffices."

The ruling elite figured a long time ago... keep 'em fat, warm, and happy, and you can get away with murder.

Okay.. so let's say that the reason it reoccurs is because we allow it. So we turn around and bring legal action to them, does anything actually happen by doing so? Does the offending officer face any repercusions from illegally performing a search and/or seizure? I'm guessing no, since it does continue and likely by the same offending officers. I don't know that for sure.. but I'm just assuming that some police would be bothered more by OC and would be the obvious candidate to repeatedly harrass those who OC.

[TaePo]

I believe part of the problem is that police officers enjoy certain immunities under the law.

In fact, you can even see some of the immunity under the use of force laws for citizens in general. Particularly about using force to effect an arrest 'believed' to be lawful in assisting a police officer. That is one example.

It would seem that only extreme and eggregious violtations of rights would make it into and through the civil court systems.

As some officers are finding out, Open Carry (OC) is indeed a right albeit with certain restrictions. They are finding out the hard way that they do not have complete immunity when violations come from 'under the color of law'.

However, there can be some immunity depending on the courts if the officer themselves were not properly trained. Then it is oops. But the department/city should then suffer the civil consequences of that.

Maybe then we will see officers filing against the department for not training them properly! (Hmmm?)

IANAL.

[Gunfighter04]

Here's my personal opinion.

Most gun owners are of the live and let live mentality. We try to stay out of others lives as long as they stay out of ours. Unfortunately the rest of the populace has jumped into the "lets make a Law that....." mentality, meanwhile we standby and think to ourselves "It shouldn't be this way". We can continue to sit on the sidelines and wonder what our forefathers would say, but we need to actively fight against the creation of additional rules, regulations, and laws; if we wish to continue to live the lives that we choose.

As Benjamin Franklin stated when asked what had they created he responded " A republic, if you can keep it."

Its time to keep it.