Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    nretsaehtuos, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
    Age
    65
    Posts
    6,936
    Rep Power
    21474860

    Default Child killed in Allentown police car crash (Responding to "man with a gun" call)

    I wonder if the "man with a gun" was bad guy or not, they don't say.

    from this web site: http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-...-newslocal-hed


    Child killed in Allentown police car crash
    By Dalondo Moultrie and Terry McCoy Of The Morning Call

    Two Allentown police officers responding to a call Wednesday night crashed their cars into each other, then one careened into two pedestrians, killing a 4-year-old boy.

    After the crash at N. Seventh and Chew streets, a large crowd of people gathered, with some throwing rocks and bottles at police and others questioning police procedures and responsibility in the death.

    Daviay Lagrand, 4, was walking with his mother, Crystal Lagrand, when he was killed, said the boy's great-grandmother, Ruby Peoples, and great-aunt, Cheryl Burton. They said Daviay, who was taken to Sacred Heart Hospital in Allentown after the crash, would have turned 5 next month.

    The father of Daviay's two siblings was also hurt, Peoples and Burton said. They did not remember his name.

    "First you heard the sirens, then you heard the tires screech, then you heard the bang," said Crystal Spearman, who said she witnessed the accident. "The little boy was laying there, severed in half."

    About 8 p.m., police responding to a call of a man with a gun raced to the scene, said Allentown Police Chief Roger MacLean. While rushing to the call, the two patrol cars smashed into one another at N. Seventh and Chew. Witnesses at the scene said the officer traveling west on Chew had a green light and went through it. The officer driving south on Seventh sped through the red light and crashed into the other, witnesses said.

    Once the cars collided, they skidded toward a family walking on Chew, hitting the man and Daviay. Witnesses said they saw the boy's severed body lying on the street for several minutes before paramedics arrived.

    "This is straight up all the Allentown Police Department's fault," said Christina Smith of Allentown, who said she witnessed the crash.

    MacLean, who responded to the accident scene along with Mayor Ed Pawlowski, said state police were called to investigate the accident.

    He couldn't estimate when more specifics will emerge about the crash.

    The two police officers were sent back to the Allentown police station, MacLean said, adding that he has no idea who they are. MacLean said he also didn't know what happened in the initial incident that prompted the response.

    People at the scene said they routinely see police cruisers speeding around the area, sometimes with lights and sirens blaring, sometimes not.

    "They are all flying on this street," said Allentown resident Nancy Balverdy. "Eating the lights, they don't stop. There are a lot of kids playing out on this street. Families outside."

    Angel Molina, who lives in the area, said the police car involved in the crash traveling west on Chew did not have its lights activated. He said the car on Seventh had its lights on.

    "The cruisers hit each other and then the one flew into the kid and the man," Molina said. "It looked like they were going over 55 mph … on their way to an emergency."

    As word spread about the crash, scores of residents gathered and began yelling at police for pushing onlookers away from the scene. William Spearman of Allentown was one of the most vocal in the early moments after the crash.

    Spearman said officers initially aligned their patrol cars to shield the victims from view. He said paramedics had a tough time reaching the victims because police cruisers blocked their path.

    Then, as onlookers became more vocal, Spearman said, officers began moving them farther away from the scene.

    "They are not going to tell the truth of how they were speeding through traffic and got to the intersection then turned on their lights," Spearman said. "We want to know how many of these officers from APD are going to stand up and accept accountability."

    Later, people who gathered taunted and cursed officers. Pawlowski, MacLean and City Councilman Julio Guridy approached the crowd, trying to talk to residents. They received the same harsh response, with yells and catcalls directed their way.

    Three bottles and several rocks were thrown from upper stories of surrounding buildings between 9:30 and 10:30 p.m.; none hit officials but cars may have been hit. The police tape was extended twice. Threats of arrest were made for disorderly conduct. Once television cameras arrived, the noise level increased.

    Pawlowski said officials planned to go to the hospital and meet with the family. He said his office will meet with residents within five days to determine the cause of the unrest and try to settle down the community.

    "We'll explain what happened and try to figure out what the issue [for the disturbance] is," he said.

    "My goal is to make sure that we can calm people down. We're going to try to pull the community together, try to assess what happened, to grieve the loss and to calm the anxiety."

    Besides Allentown and state police, South Whitehall, Whitehall, Emmaus and Salisbury police were on the scene.

    Reporters Dan Hartzell, Tara Ballenger and Bill Tattersall contributed to this story

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Finleyville, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
    Posts
    2,204
    Rep Power
    36500

    Default Re: Child killed in Allentown police car crash (Responding to "man with a gun" call)

    Bet the same people yelling about cops speeding would have yelled the opposite next time the police were responding to their call.

    The father of Daviay's two siblings was also hurt, Peoples and Burton said. They did not remember his name.
    Huh?!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
    Posts
    2,305
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Child killed in Allentown police car crash (Responding to "man with a gun" call)

    Quote Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
    Bet the same people yelling about cops speeding would have yelled the opposite next time the police were responding to their call.
    That's a red herring argument though. The cop running the red light was driving recklessly. Emergency Vehicles must slow and properly clear intersections before proceeding through. If he had hit a civilian vehicle he would have been found at fault for the accident. The officer should at least be held accountable for his negligence.

    Before anyone accuses me of monday morning quarterbacking, remember i've been driving an emergency vehicle for four years. I've never hit anything responding to a call. On the other hand, i've seen several cops hit things responding to confirmed bullshit at inappropriate speeds. The cop fucked up.
    Last edited by MarcS; May 31st, 2007 at 08:56 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Coudersport, Pennsylvania
    (Potter County)
    Posts
    135
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: Child killed in Allentown police car crash (Responding to "man with a gun" call)

    i was a volunteer emt for ten years in nj. our squad never had an accident in the time i was memember, i can't say the same for the state police in our coverage area

    who polices the nj state police ? themsleves, of course

    having had to deal the the nj state police on a frequent basis, i have no respect for them at all !!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    somewhere, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Age
    50
    Posts
    6,911
    Rep Power
    3039377

    Default Re: Child killed in Allentown police car crash (Responding to "man with a gun" call)

    Sad, very sad. Now, the question is:

    Will the officer be held to the same standard as every other citizen and be charged with manslaughter for the child's death? I have concerns they won't.
    "Political Correctness is just tyranny with manners"
    -Charlton Heston

    "[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
    -James Madison, Federalist Papers, No. 46.

    "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy." [sic]
    -John Quincy Adams

    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Μολών λαβέ!
    -King Leonidas

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
    Posts
    2,305
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Child killed in Allentown police car crash (Responding to "man with a gun" call)

    A lot of police have a very cavalier attitude towards driving. Seems i'm not the only person who noticed. You'd think they'd get the same speech: If you wreck, you're part of the problem, not the solution.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Landenberg, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Age
    49
    Posts
    1,136
    Rep Power
    8168

    Default Re: Child killed in Allentown police car crash (Responding to "man with a gun" call)

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcS View Post
    Before anyone accuses me of monday morning quarterbacking, remember i've been driving an emergency vehicle for four years. I've never hit anything responding to a call. On the other hand, i've seen several cops hit things responding to confirmed bullshit at inappropriate speeds. The cop fucked up.
    QFT -- I've seen you drive.



    The worst part of that article for me was:

    Pawlowski said officials planned to go to the hospital and meet with the family. He said his office will meet with residents within five days to determine the cause of the unrest and try to settle down the community.
    I can't believe someone would have the balls to say shit like that with a straight face. He ought to be fired for even suggesting it.

    The cause of the unrest is that people feel increasingly alienated from the police (and government in general) -- it really has become an us v. them mentality for many people and police officers. And part of the reason for that is (in no particular order): (i) the war on drugs; (ii) the militarization of the police; (iii) class issues inherent in the U.S.; (iv) the (political) abandonment of local community policing in favor of distributed rapid response; (v) the use of police as a revenue generating tool; (vi) the perception that officers are not held responsible when they fuck up.

    People are pissed because a little boy is dead, the police are responsible, and they think nothing is going to be done about it. When you mix that with all the above, of course people are going to borderline riot -- whether it's justified or not.

    The only way the resentment in these communities is going to end is to eliminate the war on drugs, admit that we lost, get back to the officer on the street who lives in the neighborhood, ditch the BDUs and jack boots, and stop sweating the small shit. And none of these problems are an individual officer issue -- they're political and departmental issues. I miss when the officer on the street had the choice to be officer friendly, quite frankly, and I know a lot of cops who feel the same way.
    Last edited by Rule10b5; May 31st, 2007 at 10:18 AM.
    The material presented herein is for informational purposes only, is not guaranteed to be correct, complete, or up to date, does not constitute legal advice and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. You should NOT act or rely on any information in this post or e-mail without seeking the advice of an attorney YOU have retained.

    In plain English, while I am an attorney, I'm NOT your attorney, and I'm NOT giving you legal advice.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Joja, Georgia
    Posts
    547
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Child killed in Allentown police car crash (Responding to "man with a gun" call)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rule10b5 View Post
    QFT -- I've seen you drive.



    The worst part of that article for me was:



    I can't believe someone would have the balls to say shit like that with a straight face. He ought to be fired for even suggesting it.

    The cause of the unrest is that people feel increasingly alienated from the police (and government in general) -- it really has become an us v. them mentality for many people and police officers. And part of the reason for that is (in no particular order): (i) the war on drugs; (ii) the militarization of the police; (iii) class issues inherent in the U.S.; (iv) the (political) abandonment of local community policing in favor of distributed rapid response; (v) the use of police as a revenue generating tool; (vi) the perception that officers are not held responsible when they fuck up.

    People are pissed because a little boy is dead, the police are responsible, and they think nothing is going to be done about it. When you mix that with all the above, of course people are going to borderline riot -- whether it's justified or not.

    The only way the resentment in these communities is going to end is to eliminate the war on drugs, admit that we lost, get back to the officer on the street who lives in the neighborhood, ditch the BDUs and jack boots, and stop sweating the small shit. And none of these problems are an individual officer issue -- they're political and departmental issues. I miss when the officer on the street had the choice to be officer friendly, quite frankly, and I know a lot of cops who feel the same way.
    I couldn't say better myself, he he heh........It is better if these cops go conceal with their firearms, walking around with guns on their hips appear like they are "bullies". Better yet, dump the uniform and put on business suits, after all.....if they are going to generate revenue for the state, why not look like crooked biz men while they are at it, he he heh...


    1FingrCHan

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Joja, Georgia
    Posts
    547
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Child killed in Allentown police car crash (Responding to "man with a gun" call)

    Quote Originally Posted by lonehiker View Post
    i was a volunteer emt for ten years in nj. our squad never had an accident in the time i was memember, i can't say the same for the state police in our coverage area

    who polices the nj state police ? themsleves, of course

    having had to deal the the nj state police on a frequent basis, i have no respect for them at all !!
    I think the military can police the NJSP effectively. Just like in any tyrant state, the only thing that could free the people is if you got a "renegade" general who turns the military against the government. We see this a lot in the third world and even in country like China, only the military can turn against the government. Them students in Tianamen square did not have a chance with their broomsticks, he he heh.....


    1FingrCHan

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    (Erie County)
    Age
    38
    Posts
    1,468
    Rep Power
    30

    Default Re: Child killed in Allentown police car crash (Responding to "man with a gun" call)

    I checked Bodog, they aren't taking bets on whether these officers will be charged
    I highly doubt anything will happen. Negligent or wrongful shootings don't result in charges often, let alone a negligent car accident. Unless this gets national media attention nothing will happen. Seems to be the case of most LEO involved incidents such as the shootings in nyc and georgia and the beatings in chicago.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 8
    Last Post: May 21st, 2007, 01:27 AM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: April 30th, 2007, 06:58 PM
  3. ABC’s "20/20" Seeking "Armed Citizen" Stories
    By NineseveN in forum General
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: April 8th, 2007, 07:09 AM
  4. Replies: 17
    Last Post: March 24th, 2007, 09:08 AM
  5. Replies: 131
    Last Post: December 11th, 2006, 01:02 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •