Allegheny County homosexual special rights Ordinance 4201-08

[shefearsnothing]

It's not about me and any sort of issue I have personally in a locker room. I am thinking more about kids and adults who should not be looking at kids changing. It's not like pedophiles have signs on them so we can say "oh no sir, you have to use your own gender bathroom because you have a pedophile sign on." And yes, I know that women can be predators and yes, I know that men can prey on boys too. But seriously, would those of you who are men who have a daughter, be changing in front her and having her change in front of you if you had another option? Would you REALLY be ok with another man walking into her locker room while she was standing there naked and getting changed? This sort of thing is just INVITING them in!

Larry, I never said I condoned that either. I am not asking to have it both ways.

[Carnes]

'men's rooms' and 'women's rooms' are by definition discriminatory based on sex. Now that our culture recognizes 'sexes' other than vanilla male and female it looks like we have two options: Provide separate facilities for every 'sex' and orientation, or stop all discrimination.

I think the best option would be for establishments to increase the privacy in individual stalls, and otherwise have the doors open to all. When someone drops a duce, it still stinks regardless if they are M, F, T, G, L or whatever else you can come up with.

It's just too damn expensive to try to provide separate facilities for every possible contingency. I guess it's just time for our culture to grow up a bit.

[wa3ra]

At least now we know where TPT's been hiding...

[Pennywise]

Non-discrimination does not equal "special rights". Transgendered or transexual citizens are not GAYS. Sexual identity and sexual preference are entirely different things, and while I normally wouldn't go soap-box on this site, I feel like I have no choice.

The transgendered are some of the most misunderstood citizens in our country. And if you think that the transgendered are making a choice, I suggest you look up suicide statistics, personal assault statistics, and public health statistics. This is a group of people who have been dealt, for lack of better words, a way more complex and confusing genetic deck of cards than the rest of us. And you know what? They are still citizens, with the same rights confered on you and me.

I've enjoyed this site, and I'm going to go out on a limb and "out" myself, because as a woman, a jew, and a lesbian, I've never seen the sort of hate or ignorance attributed to the gun community that many in my other social networks attribute to gun owners. My gay friends, jewish friends, and democratic uber-liberal vegetarian friends are always shocked when I talk about how much I enjoy the shooting community, because they make assumptions about the politics of the typical gun enthusiast.

So far on this forum, this is the first posting I've seen that has been openly hostile to any subgroup of Americans, and I'm going to continue to have faith, as I've already made several good shooting friends who perceive shooting sports as something we all can enjoy, and I have NEVER heard a word about my religious or sexual preference.

You sir, have changed that. Please actually READ the statute - no one's telling you that you have to go out and hire gays or put a "tranny's welcome" sign in your store. What it's telling you, is that when someone has gone through or is in the process of going through sexual re-assignment surgery, A MEDICAL PROCEDURE, they should be legally treated as their target gender. Where exactly would you have the transgendered pee? Would a M-T-F (that's male to female ... ) transexual, wearing a dress, be welcome in a men's room? It's also telling you that sexual preference and gender identity ALONE can't be a factor in hiring decisions any more than being black, owning a gun, or driving a subaru should.

I believe it's the 14th amendment (due process and equal protection) that prevents a majority on deciding how a minority should live. Unless you want YOUR rights voted on, please show a little bit more sensitivity, especially on a board that's supposed to be dedicated to gun related issues.

Please remember you are seeing only a few opinions out of 20,000 members of PAFOA.

[Siobhra]

Ladies rooms have stalls, your alone. As a lesbian I am quickly in and out to avoid things like this. I simply don't want to put up with the grief.

It takes a lot of work for a Tranny to dress up and put on the whole thing. If they pass as a woman and the girls room is where a pedophile goes then that freak goes all ready. If the pedophile does not pass the girls room is the place he will stick out. These guys are not dumb the last thing they want to do is attract attention.

If he is a Tranny and he lingers around he will draw attention and he knows it. Trannies are not dumb. The Tranny at the place I work is smart and in the type of job I could never do.

I think it is just a play by the bigots to stir up trouble. They are the ones who love to make a big deal out of laws like this. We here in the gun culture are in a life and death struggle for our rights and should not be part of the 'support my rights and trash others rights' crowd. Too many groups today give great speeches about their rights then follow it up with a speech trashing other peoples rights. Let's not be part of that.


To quote the Bible. (I think) "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." So if you discriminate against Gays or Trannies then YOU are giving them the right to discriminate against you. If you don't want to hire Christians then higher a Gay for the HR department. That way you can put up a sign saying "Help Wanted, Christians need not apply". I think the company could then say "The Christians believe it is right".

[Siobhra]

Also the Christians have special rights. We can't discriminate against them. If we do away with the Gay Rights laws then let's get rid of the Christians Rights while we are at it.

[autotech6506]

This is wrong on many levels. being a homosexual shouldn't affect whether you are hired or not. Now if you think you are a woman and dress that way an employer should have every right to not hire you if you are going to be dealing with customers. 99.9% of people who go into a store and see a cross-dresser (please excuse the term) they are going to leave and go elsewhere. Also, if you have a penis, you don't have any business being in a womans locker room PERIOD. What is going to stop guys from just walking in there and saying their gay just to get a peek?

[Posit]

Didn't realize I was on such an enlightened board. Most seem to support homosexual / transgender preferences... haven't seen any of the "anti" rhetoric published by religous and other family values groups. I've seen previous posts from strong Christians... don't seem to be weighing in on this one.

[Siobhra]

Both sides are getting tired of fighting the same fight over and over. We all pretty much know how the other side feels. The subject of Transsexuals is new so it is getting some new attention. A lot of us know that a man or woman who truly believes they are of the opposite sex is no different mentally from anyone else. You can still refuse to let someone into the girls rest room if they only dress as a woman part-time. Trannies have doctors notes from a shrink showing they are true transsexuals or have had an operation to change. Once they have lost their 'organs' they would be no threat to anyone anyway.

There is only a small step from banning them to banning me because I am a Lesbian. After all they can claim I am only there to look at other woman. And if the man is Gay he could only be in the men's room to look.

Some people just love to stir things up. They go out looking for trouble. Most on this board know that this country has a lot of problems and we should not weigh ourselves down with small things like this. Us Gays and our friends make up a large chunk of this country. A very large and powerful voting block. Why piss off that many voters? Why vote down their rights while you are fighting for your rights? And those of us in the Pink Pistols say the same things in the Gay Bars. Why piss off the gun owners? Why keep electing people who vote against such a large group when they don't bother us?

Can you imagine how strong a voting block the NRA and the Gays could put up? I think a strong, proud gun rights supporter who was also a proud Gay might make a great leader for the country.

[Siobhra]

It's not about me and any sort of issue I have personally in a locker room. I am thinking more about kids and adults who should not be looking at kids changing. It's not like pedophiles have signs on them so we can say "oh no sir, you have to use your own gender bathroom because you have a pedophile sign on." And yes, I know that women can be predators and yes, I know that men can prey on boys too. But seriously, would those of you who are men who have a daughter, be changing in front her and having her change in front of you if you had another option? Would you REALLY be OK with another man walking into her locker room while she was standing there naked and getting changed? This sort of thing is just INVITING them in!

Larry, I never said I condoned that either. I am not asking to have it both ways.

We really have no choice. There are very few men who would use this law to get in just to look. It would be way too easy to spot them and they know it. For the most part they would be in and out in a hurry. I know I would. Even now as a Lesbian I am in and out as fast as I can to avoid trouble.