Accessing Self Defense Case Law in PA

[RCHolmes]

I have read the Pennsylvania firearms laws and think I have a reasonable grasp on what they mean, but I would like to read actual cases that involve people (particularly ordinary citizens) who have been forced to use lethal force in self-defense.

Is there a way I can find and access cases in PA where the defendant claimed that he or she shot the victim in self-defense?

[Neo31rex31]

They are probably scattered throughout the forums here if there are any. Use the search function and see. I'm not sure though myself off the top of my head.

[knight0334]

You'll need to know which cases in particular by name, or docket, or other identifier to look for them. Not many such cases are provided by private websites though.

You'll most likely will have to look them up the old fashion way at the respective courthouse to read them. Some from recent years that have made the PA Supreme Court are available online - if you know which cases are pertinent.

[larrymeyer]

Why need a good defense

[RCHolmes]

Thanks for your replies. I think it is important not only to understand the law as is it written, but also to understand how the law is actually interpreted and applied by the judicial system in our state.

I hope I never have to shoot anyone - ever. But if I ever do, I want to be able (to the extent possible) to make sure my judgements and actions conform to the legal requirements. The saying that "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" is true as far as it goes, but as for me and my family, I'd rather be acquitted by those 12. It does not do my family much good if they lose me to the legal system because I misunderstood the law.

My hope is that I can find some actual cases in Pennsylvania where a homeowner shot an intruder in self-defense and successfully (or unsuccessfully) defended that most extreme of decisions in court.

One of you winkingly asked if I need a good defense. I guess the answer is that if I ever have to defend myself or my family with lethal force I will. By purchasing a gun and practicing defensive hangunning on the range, I am preparing myself to defend my family against a criminal. If that happens, I will then need to defend myself in court. I would like to prepare for that defense before I need it.

Incidentally, I think House Bill 40 would be very helpful in this regard.

Thanks again.

[knight0334]

Thanks for your replies. I think it is important not only to understand the law as is it written, but also to understand how the law is actually interpreted and applied by the judicial system in our state.

I hope I never have to shoot anyone - ever. But if I ever do, I want to be able (to the extent possible) to make sure my judgements and actions conform to the legal requirements. The saying that "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" is true as far as it goes, but as for me and my family, I'd rather be acquitted by those 12. It does not do my family much good if they lose me to the legal system because I misunderstood the law.

My hope is that I can find some actual cases in Pennsylvania where a homeowner shot an intruder in self-defense and successfully (or unsuccessfully) defended that most extreme of decisions in court.

One of you winkingly asked if I need a good defense. I guess the answer is that if I ever have to defend myself or my family with lethal force I will. By purchasing a gun and practicing defensive hangunning on the range, I am preparing myself to defend my family against a criminal. If that happens, I will then need to defend myself in court. I would like to prepare for that defense before I need it.

Incidentally, I think House Bill 40 would be very helpful in this regard.

Thanks again.

Specific cases are hard to find without some specific info like participants. Many of the justified shootings never go to court because the use of deadly force is pretty clearly outlined in the statutes as to when, where, and how its legal. A lot never get past the DA's desk, or even past the Grand Jury.

The last one I know of that went to court, and won, was some guy that shot a drunkard kicking his front door - through the door. I cant remember the guy's name, but I'm certain that it was in north-western PA. (thinking Venango Co.)

PA does have about 90% of Castle Doctrine as coded statute, and practices it in varying degrees in common law depending if you are in a Blue or Red area of the state. The only thing PA really lacks with Castle Doctrine is the presumption that an intruder to your place of abode, or place of work, is there to cause harm. ..thus requiring you to be in fear of or in actual danger of life/death, serious bodily injury, rape, or kidnapping. In places other than abode or work, you are required to retreat IF you can do so in complete safety. To protect a 3rd party, to do so the person you seek to protect must be in a situation that you yourself would have to be in to use force.

There are other provisions as well for stopping the commission of certain crimes, while attempting to effect an arrest for certain crimes, and for felonies committed within a dwelling.

[dangerclosepgh]

I recently was forced to shoot someone in self-defense in the City of Pittsburgh at my residence. My 8 year old son awoke me at night to tell me two men were around my truck in my driveway. I went out to investigate and was hit in the head and beaten with a wrench. The beating continued for several minutes while I was on the ground and I crawled on the ground while being beat and kicked to the front door of the house. The door was locked and I was unable to get into the house. My attackers were relentless in their beating of me threatening to "F-ing Kill You" I finally pulled a firearm from my waste and got to my feet and I told them to stop. One attacker continued his assault on me, the brandishing of the firearm only enraged him more, he continued swinging the wrench at me, grabbing for the firearm. Saying, "Give Me That F-ing Gun." I fired a warning shot at his feet to no avail, he hit me again with the wrench and grabbed at the firearm again. I finally shot him in the leg. The shots awoke my family and I retreated into the house. I called 911 and explained to the dispatcher what transpired. The police showed up and immediately put me in handcuffs behind my back, disregarding my obvious injuries. My attacker was treated like the victim. Drugs and alcohol were found on my attackers and in their vehicle. The other attacker kept threatening the police officers, stating he knew their boss and wanted all of their names and badge numbers. My attackers were never arrested. They stated they were just turning around in my driveway. I have no crimminal history. Both of my attackers have criminal convictions. The Pittsburgh Police would have rather have seen me dead, than defend myself from intruders at my own home with a firearm.

[TaePo]

Specific cases are hard to find without some specific info like participants. Many of the justified shootings never go to court because the use of deadly force is pretty clearly outlined in the statutes as to when, where, and how its legal. A lot never get past the DA's desk, or even past the Grand Jury.

The last one I know of that went to court, and won, was some guy that shot a drunkard kicking his front door - through the door. I cant remember the guy's name, but I'm certain that it was in north-western PA. (thinking Venango Co.)

PA does have about 90% of Castle Doctrine as coded statute, and practices it in varying degrees in common law depending if you are in a Blue or Red area of the state. The only thing PA really lacks with Castle Doctrine is the presumption that an intruder to your place of abode, or place of work, is there to cause harm. ..thus requiring you to be in fear of or in actual danger of life/death, serious bodily injury, rape, or kidnapping. In places other than abode or work, you are required to retreat IF you can do so in complete safety. To protect a 3rd party, to do so the person you seek to protect must be in a situation that you yourself would have to be in to use force.

There are other provisions as well for stopping the commission of certain crimes, while attempting to effect an arrest for certain crimes, and for felonies committed within a dwelling.

Here is a link to the thread that has a link to the newspaper article(s).

HERE

[GunLawyer001]

I recently was forced to shoot someone in self-defense in the City of Pittsburgh at my residence. My 8 year old son awoke me at night to tell me two men were around my truck in my driveway. I went out to investigate and was hit in the head and beaten with a wrench. The beating continued for several minutes while I was on the ground and I crawled on the ground while being beat and kicked to the front door of the house. The door was locked and I was unable to get into the house. My attackers were relentless in their beating of me threatening to "F-ing Kill You" I finally pulled a firearm from my waste and got to my feet and I told them to stop. One attacker continued his assault on me, the brandishing of the firearm only enraged him more, he continued swinging the wrench at me, grabbing for the firearm. Saying, "Give Me That F-ing Gun." I fired a warning shot at his feet to no avail, he hit me again with the wrench and grabbed at the firearm again. I finally shot him in the leg. The shots awoke my family and I retreated into the house. I called 911 and explained to the dispatcher what transpired. The police showed up and immediately put me in handcuffs behind my back, disregarding my obvious injuries. My attacker was treated like the victim. Drugs and alcohol were found on my attackers and in their vehicle. The other attacker kept threatening the police officers, stating he knew their boss and wanted all of their names and badge numbers. My attackers were never arrested. They stated they were just turning around in my driveway. I have no crimminal history. Both of my attackers have criminal convictions. The Pittsburgh Police would have rather have seen me dead, than defend myself from intruders at my own home with a firearm.

That would have to have made the newspapers. Have a link to a story?

[Steve_NEPhila]

I recently was forced to shoot someone in self-defense in the City of Pittsburgh at my residence. My 8 year old son awoke me at night to tell me two men were around my truck in my driveway. I went out to investigate and was hit in the head and beaten with a wrench. The beating continued for several minutes while I was on the ground and I crawled on the ground while being beat and kicked to the front door of the house. The door was locked and I was unable to get into the house. My attackers were relentless in their beating of me threatening to "F-ing Kill You" I finally pulled a firearm from my waste and got to my feet and I told them to stop. One attacker continued his assault on me, the brandishing of the firearm only enraged him more, he continued swinging the wrench at me, grabbing for the firearm. Saying, "Give Me That F-ing Gun." I fired a warning shot at his feet to no avail, he hit me again with the wrench and grabbed at the firearm again. I finally shot him in the leg. The shots awoke my family and I retreated into the house. I called 911 and explained to the dispatcher what transpired. The police showed up and immediately put me in handcuffs behind my back, disregarding my obvious injuries. My attacker was treated like the victim. Drugs and alcohol were found on my attackers and in their vehicle. The other attacker kept threatening the police officers, stating he knew their boss and wanted all of their names and badge numbers. My attackers were never arrested. They stated they were just turning around in my driveway. I have no crimminal history. Both of my attackers have criminal convictions. The Pittsburgh Police would have rather have seen me dead, than defend myself from intruders at my own home with a firearm.

I might be the first to call it, and I may be a dick for doing so... but I am calling bullshit. The last guy I knew that took a wrench to the head died four days later in a Temple University ICU and at no point regained consciousness.

If you were involved in such a matter posting an account of it online is about the damn stupidest thing possible. Your post is discoverable and will be used against you.

In my opinion, after being hit with a deadly weapon (wrench) and attacked by two men my first warning shot would be for center mass. I am no Rambo, but I do not like sending bullets into my neighbors garden gnomes and blow up Halloween decorations. (It is just down right bad form)

I have a hard time believing that your assailants were not arrested. How did you know that your assailants had criminal convictions? How did you know your attackers had booze and drugs in their car? And you still want me to believe that they were not arrested, come on... we have all seen at least one episode of Cops.

These were just the gaping holes of incredulity that I found on a casual glance of your post. However, there is a solution for you. Post a link to an article of this event, show us some security video footage of this event, organize an OC rally outside of a Miley Cyrus concert or post a listing where one can buy new HK P7 PSP magazines for less then 60 bucks. Your play...