Results 31 to 40 of 78
Thread: PA trespassing laws
-
November 26th, 2012, 02:21 PM #31Banned
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Location
-
S.W. Pa,
Pennsylvania
(Westmoreland County) - Posts
- 1,188
- Rep Power
- 0
-
November 26th, 2012, 02:45 PM #32
Re: PA trespassing laws
The Recreational Use of Land and Water Act - a little known law that awards land owners limits on liability for accidents and such who allow their land to be used for recreational purposes.
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/brc/RUWL...tFinalFpdf.pdfLast edited by knight0334; November 26th, 2012 at 02:49 PM.
RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515
Don't end up in my signature!
-
November 26th, 2012, 02:51 PM #33
Re: PA trespassing laws
Your response is a non-sequitur. I noted the similarities in "entitlement" mindset between urban folks who demand your money, and rural folks who demand the use of your land; your response is that you're polite and a pleasant fellow.
Now, I have no reason to doubt that you're polite and a pleasant fellow, but that hardly addresses the notion that an area's local hunters feel entitled to use the lands of others for personal gain. And that it's hard to find a bright-line difference between them and multi-generational Welfare parasites, with respect to the narrow issue I discussed.
Yes, I'm aware of the laws, I know about posting land. I also know that illiterate crack whores with 6 bastard children are entitled to free stuff, under the laws. Doesn't make it right, just legal.
If it helps, I feel the same way about mandatory sidewalks. I gain little to zero benefit from the sidewalks abutting my property, yet I am required to maintain them, shovel them, keep an eye out for damage, and I have no right to eject anyone loitering on them. It's an unfunded mandate, involuntary servitude, where the govt issues an edict that I must provide a benefit to strangers without compensation. Saying "it's a part of owning land" is no more of a justification that "white man's burden" or "the lot of a woman is hard, get used to it and shut up."Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.
-
November 26th, 2012, 02:59 PM #34
Re: PA trespassing laws
Interesting, I was unaware of this. However, if you DON'T allow recreational users, then isn't the duty you owe to people using your land WITHOUT your permission downgraded to the low level of care that you owe trespassers?
It seems a little like the Good Samaritan laws. You don't get any extra benefit from helping accident victims, the law just shields you from liability for that act that you didn't have to do.
It's good so far as it goes, but it doesn't seem to affect anything else, it just says that if you allow strangers onto your land, then those strangers can't sue for certain things (but they can still sue for others, or they can ALLEGE that you intentionally put holes into the ground.
How would this affect a hunter who wanders into your non-posted property without your knowledge, and falls into the foundation of the building you're having constructed? How would that be different if he was trespassing and it was posted against hunting?Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.
-
November 26th, 2012, 03:15 PM #35
Re: PA trespassing laws
I don't remember all of the details because courts have made several different rulings. I don't think the act requires direct permission, just use of that open fields type doctrine for sporting/recreational use(cant remember the caselaw for unposted rural lands).
My family got "schooled" on that act many years ago when some nitwits decided to get themselves killed on one of our fence posts while riding a snowmobile. Their next of kin tried to sue my family, however fortunately for us we forgot to post our lands that year and it was tossed. The judge said that had we posted like we normally had done years prior the suite would have proceeded. ...since then we haven't posted our farm land.
From what I understand with current case law, known hazards have to be fixed, clearly marked, or isolated. ...like a sturdy cap placed over wells, fences intended to keep people out of places around unsafe areas, etc, etc. As I'm sure you're aware of, each incident is a case of its own in a common law court system.. One court my find fault with the house builder, another may side with the recreational act limitations.Last edited by knight0334; November 26th, 2012 at 03:20 PM.
RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515
Don't end up in my signature!
-
November 26th, 2012, 06:41 PM #36Banned
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Location
-
S.W. Pa,
Pennsylvania
(Westmoreland County) - Posts
- 1,188
- Rep Power
- 0
Re: PA trespassing laws
Well now, that example is non-sequitur. But, we are getting nowhere fast this way. The Pa posting laws are what they are. Land owners have certain responsibilities and, as apparent by many of the post on this and other forums, the landowners don't like them.
That's understandable, but....complaining about 'em here really doesn't do much. Contact your State Rep. (Doubtful that will do much either....but....)
-
November 26th, 2012, 07:20 PM #37Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
- Location
-
Ephrata,
Pennsylvania
(Lancaster County) - Age
- 42
- Posts
- 264
- Rep Power
- 1079189
Re: PA trespassing laws
I found this to be helpful
http://law.psu.edu/_file/aglaw/Lando...Land_Users.pdf
It would seem that on posted land you don't owe anything thing more than you do to any other trespasser. However, this is an interesting bit of the article in reference to the RULWAIn addition to liability for physical injuries, there are other areas of liability related to the
recreational use of land that landowners should be aware of. For example, the Americans
with Disabilities Act, which became law on July 26, 1990, prohibits private entities from
discriminating against an individual on the basis of his or her disability.
15
In the land use
context, this would mean that a landowner who holds his land open to use by the public may
face a liability action at some point if he fails to provide appropriate access to his land for
people with various disabilities.
-
November 27th, 2012, 12:54 PM #38Banned
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Location
-
S.W. Pa,
Pennsylvania
(Westmoreland County) - Posts
- 1,188
- Rep Power
- 0
Re: PA trespassing laws
I know this is hi-jacking this thread somewhat, but just a few comments to what you have stated concerning the reference to ADA above:
1) First off, I was tossed out of a Club (A gun club who is a member of the Allegheny County Sportsman's league) because of my disability. The Club did not (as they have done to every other member they have either disciplined or tossed out) grant me a "hearing" as required by the Club's by-laws. Why? Because they had no valid reason to throw me out.
2) What did I do? I requested to use an electric modified cart in order to traverse Club property so that I could access the places where the deer actually were. However, I requested this under the provisions of the ADA.
3) Why did the Club toss me out? Good question. I never received an answer to that.
4) Can I sue them privately? Yes. Will I? There's still time.
5) What have I done? Filed a complaint with the NRA (To which that organization has tossed me under the bus) and with the Federal Department of Justice (To which a decision is still pending)
6) The Club is claiming ADA does not apply as they are a "private Club." I am stating it's pretty clear that since the Club holds events such as gun bashes on the property every year, and thus promotes economic trade and activity, they have removed themselves from this exemption. This is also backed up by two separate IRS memorandums.
7) OTOH....who wants to belong to a Club that throws out disabled individuals because they are disabled? OTOH, who wants to belong to a Club that is proud to throw out disabled individuals because they are disabled? Well, as long as the members keep it hush-hush, "it's all good."
Dave
-
November 27th, 2012, 06:31 PM #39Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
- Location
-
Ephrata,
Pennsylvania
(Lancaster County) - Age
- 42
- Posts
- 264
- Rep Power
- 1079189
Re: PA trespassing laws
That's ridiculous especially considering it doesn't seem as though the club needed to do anything other than to allow you to use your own equipment. I'm sorry to hear about this, but glad you are fighting it.
As far as what I posted, I hope the writer of the essay was being overly cautious. Otherwise the implications could actually discourage people from opening up their land to use. It depends on how discrimination is defined. A landowner should face a suite if they deny a person access because of a disability or refuses to allow them to use a device needed to make access possible (as in your example). To me that is discrimination. However, is it discrimination if a landowner does not care for or modify his land in such a way that it is accessible to all? For example, my family owns some land that contains trails that we use for both hiking and riding atv's. If we open those trails up to public use (which won't happen, but hypothetically) would we be discriminating since these trails are not wheelchair accessible? If that is the case, it's a ridiculous interpretation of the law and should make people think twice about opening their land for use.
-
November 27th, 2012, 07:15 PM #40Banned
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Location
-
S.W. Pa,
Pennsylvania
(Westmoreland County) - Posts
- 1,188
- Rep Power
- 0
Re: PA trespassing laws
Well, what the ADA states is that "reasonable accommodations" need to be made. So, the next step is....what exactly are these "reasonable accommodations"?
In my specific case all I was asking for was use. I needed nothing else. I needed no special unloading ramp, no special graded trail, no special anything. I just wanted to be allowed to use my own cart on the land. And the cart was designed to be used on trails at low speed (top speed 7mph) had posi-traction, was electric so no other hunter would be disturbed, and had turf tires so no damage to any planted fields would be damaged.
In the case of wheelchairs, "reasonable accommodations" could and should be considered enough that a chair built to traverse the woods and existing trails would be "reasonable." No extraordinary expenditures would be required to make "reasonable accommodations." In other words....no one is asking you to spend enough dollars to make cliff climbing do-able for the disabled. That would be "unreasonable."
Similar Threads
-
3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE
By Geronimo509 in forum GeneralReplies: 38Last Post: January 27th, 2013, 11:40 PM -
laws
By rwilson452 in forum GeneralReplies: 8Last Post: January 2nd, 2009, 10:33 AM -
Trespassing laws are real and enforced
By Tootie in forum GeneralReplies: 19Last Post: December 23rd, 2008, 06:21 PM -
DC Gun Laws
By MrBi11 in forum GeneralReplies: 6Last Post: December 18th, 2008, 10:37 AM -
Legal Reference Requested: Trespassing on Posted Private Property
By Captain Tuttle in forum GeneralReplies: 15Last Post: October 17th, 2008, 06:53 PM
Bookmarks