Allegheny County Park - Rules - Does this need challenging?

**falcn** · June 19th, 2009, 11:47 AM

All this talk about being able to carry in parks got me thinking about the parks near my house where we frequent with the dog, particularly White Oak Park, in White Oak, PA.

I went to the White Oak Park website off of a google search and clicked on the link for rules...Actually this is the link for ALL Allegheny County Park Rules!

http://www.alleghenycounty.us/parks/rules.aspx

Allegheny County Parks:
Boyce Park
Deer Lakes Park
Harrison Hills Park
Hartwood
North Park
Round Hill Park
Settler's Cabin Park
South Park
White Oak Park

Section 8. Weapons and Explosives

a. Discharge of any firearm or weapon including but not limited to handguns, rifles, shotguns, crossbow, bow and arrow, air rifle or pistol, any devise firing a projectile by compressed gas or spring, such as paintball devices or as otherwise specifically allowed by permit issued by the Parks Department;

b. Brandishing of a firearm or weapon including but not limited to handguns, rifles, shotguns, crossbow, bow and arrow, air riffle or pistol, any devise firing a projectile by compressed gas or spring, such as paintball devices except as otherwise specifically allowed by permit issued by the Parks Department. Firearms may be transported through the Park if kept in a car trunk, enclosed in a case, or otherwise inaccessible to use. Nothing contained herein shall prohibit any person licensed under the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act, 18. P.S. §6109 from possession of a firearm as defined in Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act, 18 P.S. §6102.

Bold/Underline by me.
So you don't have to go look it up...their references to UFA 18

18 P.S. §6102
"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable

18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 deals with licensing (LTCF and what it covers, how to apply, etc.).

What the Park Rule seems to indicate to me is that they believe you need to have an LTCF to carry in the park. That is not correct, if I walk there OC, since this is a County Park, am I not legally allowed to enter the park? I think I am.

**US Militiaman** · June 19th, 2009, 11:53 AM

The way I read it, possession is not banned. Discharging and brandishing is prohibited, and I think the clause about LTCF holders is just clarification - that sentence does not confer any additional rights or privileges.

Not a lawyer though...

ETA - I was a little off...the wording does not allow OC...they snuck it in under the transport section of the second cited regulation. I think a letter/appearance at a meeting is in order informing them of preemption. The inclusion of the sentence at the end of the second cited regulation makes it seem like they wouldn't be stubborn mules about informing them of the preemption statute.

**Curmudgeon** · June 19th, 2009, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by falcn

All this talk about being able to carry in parks got me thinking about the parks near my house where we frequent with the dog, particularly White Oak Park, in White Oak, PA.

I went to the White Oak Park website off of a google search and clicked on the link for rules...Actually this is the link for ALL Allegheny County Park Rules!

http://www.alleghenycounty.us/parks/rules.aspx

Allegheny County Parks:
Boyce Park
Deer Lakes Park
Harrison Hills Park
Hartwood
North Park
Round Hill Park
Settler's Cabin Park
South Park
White Oak Park

Section 8. Weapons and Explosives

a. Discharge of any firearm or weapon including but not limited to handguns, rifles, shotguns, crossbow, bow and arrow, air rifle or pistol, any devise firing a projectile by compressed gas or spring, such as paintball devices or as otherwise specifically allowed by permit issued by the Parks Department;

b. Brandishing of a firearm or weapon including but not limited to handguns, rifles, shotguns, crossbow, bow and arrow, air riffle or pistol, any devise firing a projectile by compressed gas or spring, such as paintball devices except as otherwise specifically allowed by permit issued by the Parks Department. Firearms may be transported through the Park if kept in a car trunk, enclosed in a case, or otherwise inaccessible to use. Nothing contained herein shall prohibit any person licensed under the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act, 18. P.S. §6109 from possession of a firearm as defined in Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act, 18 P.S. §6102.

Bold/Underline by me.
So you don't have to go look it up...their references to UFA 18

18 P.S. §6102
"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 deals with licensing (LTCF and what it covers, how to apply, etc.).

What the Park Rule seems to indicate to me is that they believe you need to have an LTCF to carry in the park. That is not correct, if I walk there OC, since this is a County Park, am I not legally allowed to enter the park? I think I am.

*Red bold is mine*

I agree. Looks like they may be attempting to regulate OC, or transport, or some combination of the two.

Furthermore, I don't understand where they get the authority to create rules or laws regarding brandishing. There are no laws regarding brandishing at the state level.

This looks like a good opportunity to get to know the Park officials, clear this up.

**renegadephoenix** · June 19th, 2009, 12:35 PM

This is being worked on as we type! we have people behind the scenes setting up a picnic

**AxiTech** · June 19th, 2009, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by renegadephoenix

This is being worked on as we type! we have people behind the scenes setting up a picnic

OOOHH , I love a picnic. It just so happens I will be over there, Finleyville, next weekend. I might go over and do a little power walk in South Park up and back on Corrigan dr.