Jury Duty in York County

[87th PVI]

I had Jury duty all this week, and made notes at the end of each day concerning my carry and any firearms related conversations I had.

I waited until I was released from duty to post, so I'll put each day into a new post to make it easier for anyone interested in reading it.

I'll answer this right now before it is asked... Yes I was selected for a jury and no I will not discuss the case.

As a result, this may be a boring thread to some but I thought some may be interested in my firearms related experiences this week. so here goes:

Day 1
I walked CC IWB from garage to Courthouse with another juror, who was a meek little guy but very nice. We engaged in friendly chatting all the way. Once in the Courthouse I stepped to the side as he got in the security line. He looked at me funny, as I was not accompanying him any longer. From that point on, I didn’t pay attention to my new acquaintance’s reaction if there even was any.
I got the attention of the Sheriff’s Deputy to let him know I had a sidearm to check. The Deputy asked if I was LEO, I said no, citizen. He asked why I was there I said Jury Duty, he sighed & rolled his eyes but gave me a locker… then asked to see my LTCF, looked it over, went to hand it back, then decided he would keep it in the locker with the gun.
To be honest, due to his eye roll, sigh & that little here ya go, no wait let me keep it here thing had me a bit nervous… was he going to ask the sheriff to revoke me because he didn’t like that I exercise my rights & needed to make use of the locker provided for me by law?
The juror whom I had walked in with sat on the opposite side of the jury room & didn’t talk to me the rest of the day. Not sure if that was coincidence or if he was now attempting to avoid me.

At one point during the day, I was chatting with a woman who was a MD transplant to PA. We were talking about the constitution as it pertains to the 5th A and innocent until proven guilty etc… then the topic of conversation somehow shifted to the no cell phone rule in the CH. I said I was glad they didn’t allow cell phones because of the distractions they would cause there. I then told her I was supposed to be on a conference call that afternoon & my boss was upset with the fact that I couldn’t be on. I then said that I carry a sidearm which they have to by law provide a locker for & when I told my boss I couldn’t be on the call, he made a snide comment saying I should take the call on my Ruger. At that moment I remembered she was from MD, & thought uh oh, here we go… she didn’t even bat an eye, she said my boss sounds like a jerk, & we continued to have a very pleasant conversation.

At the end of the day, when I went to retrieve my sidearm, the same deputy from the morning and another one who I hadn’t seen before were there, and they were both nice as can be. When they opened my locker, it didn’t look as though my LTCF had been disturbed from it’s position when it was put in there that morning and they told me for the rest of the week I can just go over sign in, and get a locker on my own, I only need them to unlock it when I’m ready to retrieve it.
As I put my sidearm on the belt in OC mode I chatted with them briefly thanking them for their support of our right to carry and I told them how when I visited the State Capitol for the 2A rally I had to be escorted all the way to the basement to check my firearm. I thanked them for making it so easy to check them here & wished them a wonderful evening and a see ya tomorrow.
The sigh guy was looking at my hip with one of those You aren’t going out like that are you expressions so I chickened out for the moment & pulled my shirt over to CC.
A few feet from the front of the courthouse & a little stretch later I was back to OC for the trip to the parking garage.
The only people who seemed to notice were a kid whose eye level was at my hip (he had the neck of an owl LOL) and one guy who did not strike me as a model citizen type. The latter gave me a wide berth as we passed crossing the street.
Once at the parking garage I ran into a female juror who couldn’t find her car. I helped her look for it for a bit walking first up to her & then right beside her for a little while & I don’t think she ever noticed the sidearm.

[87th PVI]

Day 2

As I’m checking my sidearm, I hear the Deputy from the first day saying yeah I checked, they are allowed. The other Deputy responded that he didn’t know that, then as I was going thru the metal detector that second Deputy said to me, “You’re one of probably like three permit holders who actually carry.” I responded, “Well there were like a few thousand of us at the Capitol for the 2A rally recently.” He then said, “and most of them were probably LEOs, right?” I said, “well there was an FOP thing going on there that same day, but I wasn’t including them.”

I was chatting with another juror for the better part of the day about a variety of subjects. He was retired LEO and our conversation included the topic of firearms. He told me that he’s carried every day & everywhere he could since he turned 21. I said something like oh so yours is in a locker downstairs too then… He said his was in the gun safe he installed in his vehicle for situations such as this week. I was really wishing he’d have checked his gun that morning too so the deputy I had spoken to would think two out of the “three of us who actually carry” had jury duty at the same time.

Later in the day, a few of us were talking about the good old days when there were shooting teams & shooting clubs in the public high schools. Everyone I was speaking with was of the opinion that they should bring those programs back. After all, education is the key to everything.

When I returned from lunch & checked my sidearm for the afternoon, the Deputy (new one to me) asked to see my LTCF & he also put it in the locker with my .45 as the Deputy had done the previous morning, but he was very nice & didn’t posture any bad vibe body language.
When I retrieved my sidearm for the day, and thanked them etc., the three Deputies were very friendly, saying things like OK Buddy! Have a great night, see ya tomorrow! J

[87th PVI]

Day 3

Today when I was checking my sidearm one of the Deputies said don’t forget to put your permit in there with it. We need that just in case there’d be an evacuation or something & we’d need to find you to return your property. I said Oh OK when they put it in there the first day, I thought oh great is there going to be a problem? The Deputy said oh no, no problem at all. It’s your right & we have to provide you with a locker by law. We just don’t advertise that fact.

During the day, I met one of my fellow jurists who is a LEO for Baltimore City PD. Her husband is a detective with the same dept. She & I had chatted a little and become friendly, so as we were leaving for the day, I asked her (adding that she didn’t have to answer if she didn’t want to) if she carried off duty. Without hesitation she said yes. Then she said she couldn’t bring her service weapon home because she works in MD & lives in PA. Therefore she has a personal carry gun for home while off duty. She expressed how stupid she thought that whole thing was & I said that I think it’s a PITA too since I go to VA often & have to follow federal transport regs to go thru MD but yet I’m a trusted citizen in PA & VA. I added that I avoid MD as much as possible due to their disregard for the 2A.
About that time we were coming up on the elevator & the conversation ended.
As we left the courthouse I split off from the group, reclaimed my .45 and OC’d to the car. Upon catching back up with her, she said, You were in front of me then you were gone, where’d you get to? I pointed to the hip & she said oh, ok, I thought that might have been where you went. She then added that she didn’t carry this week because she didn’t want to have to check her sidearm every day. I said I have been checking mine because I don’t have a gun safe in the car. She said she doesn’t believe in leaving it in the car (without being secured in a safe) either but her husband does it all the time & she expresses her dissatisfaction with him for it often.

Important thing to remember here is that I was OC & she is a sworn active LEO for BALTIMORE CITY PD and she didn’t raise an eyebrow at all.

For later on day 3 see http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...rst-idiot.html

[87th PVI]

Day 4

All was normal (professional & pleasant) when I checked my sidearm in the morning & retrieved it at end of day. CC’d the .380 NAA Guardian today due to the comfort it affords with the particular pair of pants I chose.

[Curmudgeon]

This is a good read, and thanks for posting it. Apparently, I've repped you too much lately, so I owe you one.

I'm glad this has been a positive series of events. It's the way they should all be.

[87th PVI]

Day 5

Went CC with the Guardian again today. Nothing out of the ordinary at check in.

Today during a break, another juror brought up the subject of firearms & while he & I were talking about his guns, and the fact that I like to shoot sporting clays & have you been to this club or that club, etc…the Baltimore officer I had mentioned earlier turned to me & said, May I ask you a question, and you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to, and please don’t take offence…
I thought hmmm she seemed cool with me before but here it comes.
She then asked, Why do you feel that you need to carry your gun to here? (I think I correctly assumed by here she meant to the courthouse & checking it every day, not actually into the jury room LOL.)

Another juror then chimed in, Is it just because you can?

I then said that I carry everywhere else I am allowed, so this is no different than any other time for me. I am armed unless in a place where the law doesn’t allow me to be. (I didn’t add that I couldn’t be armed at work either due to company policy just because I didn’t feel the need to get into that depth of detail.)
I also looked at the other juror & said, so because I can is one small facet of the equation but “just” because I can is not my reason.
She (the LEO) said oh OK I was just curious.

The juror I’d been talking with first then said hell I didn’t know you could bring them here or I would’ve too because I usually have mine with me everywhere else I go.
She & I then told him that not only is he is allowed to bring it & check it, the law says they have to respect his right to do so & provide him with a locker.

He asked her how LEOs feel about armed citizens & she said that they have no problem with them because they are law abiding citizens acting within their rights & when there is LEO contact for any reason like traffic stop etc, someone who is law abiding citizen and carrying legally will normally tell the officer right away that there is a gun on them or in the car etc. and they do not pose any problem.
I then added that while it may be a good idea to notify in most situations, (case by case basis there & I was trying to remain diplomatic, so don't get all bent out of shape about that) PA does not have any law stating that you must notify an officer when contact is made. Some states do however have laws that require one to notify LEO when any contact is made.
I then looked at her & said just to put your mind to ease, she interrupted & said she was just curious & didn’t mean to infer anything… I said I do want to expand on my answer to your question though… I then let her know that I take carrying very seriously & have researched the laws of not just PA but any state I will be traveling through, attended at my own expense seminars & training etc and I know the responsibilities of my choice. I added that I hope never to need to use it. I said that I didn’t want her to think I was just some guy strapping on a gun & going out in the world unarmed of knowledge and sense of responsibility.
She said she could tell that was not the case. She was just curious. She also seemed very genuine in that statement. I didn't feel she was judging me any more at that point. I felt she was actually just curious.

When I recovered my property the Deputy was very nice & engaged in friendly casual conversation with me as I was leaving for the day.

I went directly to church, spoke with clergy and made my peace with God for the decision I had made in the trial and asked him to watch over every one of us who had been involved in the case.

Thank God this week is now in the past.

[ungawa]

I think you are being propositioned by a woman with cuffs

Good read, thanks for posting.

[KMcL]

Thanks for the post. Good to know they are aware of the law at the courthouse.

[Computer Steve]

Good job Chris.

Now come pick me up and let's go shoot some plastic bottles.

[XD40coyote]

There's a bunch of cops who work in Baltimore city who live in York county, makes you wonder doesn't it? Also many live in the counties around Baltimore city, rather than living in the city, and the dingaling mayor made some comment on such that she would rather they live in the city as it would "make neighborhoods safer" or some such. You know a city is bad when a large # of the police force doesn't want to live there. High taxes are another reason to stay away.