How to register an unregistered firearm.

**gunmetal** · August 24th, 2006, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by The Drew

The state of PA keeps sales records. WHich is not the same as a registry.

How is it different?

**The Drew** · August 25th, 2006, 08:22 AM

Because there are other legal ways to transfer a handgun. Like inheriting, gifting within immediate family, moving in from another state and bringing handguns, and some of us have FFL's and the state never sees paperwork for those unless they are sold off.

That and if it really WERE a registry, it'd be illegal per PA law. Most of us know that it more or less equates, but the supreme court disaggrees. The highest court in PA says it's not a registry, so it isn't a registry.

**gunmetal** · August 25th, 2006, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by The Drew

Because there are other legal ways to transfer a handgun.

Yes, so it seems to me that this is just a registry with limitations like the ones you referenced.

That and if it really WERE a registry, it'd be illegal per PA law. Most of us know that it more or less equates, but the supreme court disaggrees. The highest court in PA says it's not a registry, so it isn't a registry.

I'm not quite as willing to let the court tell me that a registry isn't a registry. 1984 ring any bells?

A registry by any other name is just as stinky.

**TotalNewbie** · August 26th, 2006, 01:05 AM

Sorry to ask so basic questions, but let me understand this.

From Drew’s posting, it appears that upon a sale of a firearm, the dealer needs to inform the state of the sale. Just what percentage of guns does Penn. know about? Is this basically a revenue raising proposition? Is there an annual registration fee for such firearms as there is for automobiles?

And how does Pennsylvania use this information? For example, if Pennsylvania knows that a certain individual possesses a firearm, then, are police officers responding to a domestic disturbance at the residence of that individual apprised of the fact that he owns a gun?

If there is a good website on such newbie questions, please post the link.

**starblazer** · August 26th, 2006, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by TotalNewbie

Sorry to ask so basic questions, but let me understand this.

From Drew’s posting, it appears that upon a sale of a firearm, the dealer needs to inform the state of the sale

I'll leave this one for one of our dealers here to answer.

Just what percentage of guns does Penn. know about?

Here I'd have to say it's anyones guess. As stated before, transfers can be done legally without the involvement of an ffl in certain instances.

Is this basically a revenue raising proposition? Is there an annual registration fee for such firearms as there is for automobiles?

There is no "registration" Again, this might be a good one for the dealers here to tackle, but I'll say there is no recurring fees. You pay for an instant check for each purchase and the dealer is required by federal law to keep records of each sale.

And how does Pennsylvania use this information? For example, if Pennsylvania knows that a certain individual possesses a firearm, then, are police officers responding to a domestic disturbance at the residence of that individual apprised of the fact that he owns a gun?

Any LE want to answer this?

**The Drew** · August 26th, 2006, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by TotalNewbie

Sorry to ask so basic questions, but let me understand this.

From Drew’s posting, it appears that upon a sale of a firearm, the dealer needs to inform the state of the sale. Just what percentage of guns does Penn. know about? Is this basically a revenue raising proposition? Is there an annual registration fee for such firearms as there is for automobiles?

And how does Pennsylvania use this information? For example, if Pennsylvania knows that a certain individual possesses a firearm, then, are police officers responding to a domestic disturbance at the residence of that individual apprised of the fact that he owns a gun?

If there is a good website on such newbie questions, please post the link.

Because it isn't "registration" there is no registration fee nor is there any recurrance of reregistering on a timely basis. The state merely keeps sales records. When a handgun is sold in PA it is required to go through a dealer so that they will process a PICS background check and record the sale. As I said before, there are some exceptions to the dealer transfer rule. And how many people know that you must go through a dealer for a person to person sale, I don't know, so there is really no way of knowing what percentage of handguns the state has accurate records of.

**The Drew** · August 26th, 2006, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by gunmetal

Yes, so it seems to me that this is just a registry with limitations like the ones you referenced.

I'm not quite as willing to let the court tell me that a registry isn't a registry. 1984 ring any bells?

A registry by any other name is just as stinky.

Well, you and I see that it is functionally a registry, and that is what was taken to court recently, and the supreme court decided that it wasn't.

A real registry would require that all handguns be registered unless they are part of a dealer inventory. This is not the case.

**phillyd2** · August 27th, 2006, 08:44 AM

But not matter what they say I would bet there are owners list kept somewhere. No proof just a gut feeling.

**TotalNewbie** · August 27th, 2006, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by The Drew

Because it isn't "registration" there is no registration fee nor is there any recurrance of reregistering on a timely basis. The state merely keeps sales records. When a handgun is sold in PA it is required to go through a dealer so that they will process a PICS background check and record the sale.

Thank Drew. As I understand it, the PICS provides instant access to background records on an individual to determine if the person is eligible to acquire a firearm or a license to carry a firearm. That makes sense.

But what is the point of the State actually knowing if you purchased a firearm? What am I not seeing? Thanks!