Stun gun is it illegal to have with a LTCF?

[TXDMERC73]

i have a Raptor 750 k volt stun gun i had it for couple years i really dont know what to do with it since stun guns are illegal , i dont even know why they sell them online. I dont even know if its effective either i wont even dare to try it on myself! its 750 k volts! since i have a LTCF is it still illegal to carry or have? if so then i guess i have to smash it up....it was $79.00 when i bought it online .

[unloved]

You decide.

§ 908.1. Use or possession of electric or electronic incapacitation device



(a) Offense defined.--Except as set forth in subsection (b), a person commits an offense if the person does any of the following:

(1) Uses an electric or electronic incapacitation device on another person for an unlawful purpose.

(2) Possesses, with intent to violate paragraph (1), an electric or electronic incapacitation device.


(b) Self defense.--A person may possess and use an electric or electronic incapacitation device in the exercise of reasonable force in defense of the person or the person's property pursuant to Chapter 5 (relating to general principles of justification) if the electric or electronic incapacitation device is labeled with or accompanied by clearly written instructions as to its use and the damages involved in its use.


(c) Prohibited possession.--No person prohibited from possessing a firearm pursuant to section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms) may possess or use an electric or electronic incapacitation device.


(d) Grading.--An offense under subsection (a) shall constitute a felony of the second degree if the actor acted with the intent to commit a felony. Otherwise any offense under this section is graded as a misdemeanor of the first degree.


(e) Exceptions.--Nothing in this section shall prohibit the possession or use by, or the sale or furnishing of any electric or electronic incapacitation device to, a law enforcement agency, peace officer, employee of a correctional institution, county jail or prison or detention center, the National Guard or reserves or a member of the National Guard or reserves for use in their official duties.


(f) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "electric or electronic incapacitation device" means a portable device which is designed or intended by the manufacturer to be used, offensively or defensively, to temporarily immobilize or incapacitate persons by means of electric pulse or current, including devices operating by means of carbon dioxide propellant. The term does not include cattle prods, electric fences or other electric devices when used in agricultural, animal husbandry or food production activities
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[XD45]

it's a License To Carry Firearms in PA, so it does not allow you to carry anything but firearms

[angus]

IANAL, but I don't read the statute as stun-guns being illegal, just that you can't use it unlawfully (blasting someone to rob them). It seems that you can use it in lawful self-defense, provided it has a bunch of instructions and warnings plastered all over it. The LTCF thing doesn't really enter into it except that a person prohibited from having a firearm can't have a stun-gun. Just my lay opinion of the statute.

[LittleRedToyota]

an LTCF has nothing to do with it. if it is legal, it is legal with or without an LTCF. if it is not legal, it is not legal with or without an LTCF.

there are two contradictory sections of law.

the prohibited offensive weapons statute says they are illegal.

the statute posted above says they can be legal.

i think, in practice, the statute posted above would be the one applied since it is more specific (and, i believe, was enacted after) the POW statute.

[JCWohlschlag]

Also be aware that, like knives, stun guns/TASERs/electronic incapacitation devices do not have the protection of state preemption like firearms do. Local municipalities can and do regulate their possession and carry, such as in Philadelphia Code § 10-825.

§ 10-825. Stun Guns.

(1) Definitions.

(a) Stun Gun. Any device which expels or projects a projectile which, upon coming in contact with a person, is capable of inflicting injury or an electric shock to such person.

(2) Prohibited Conduct. No person shall own, use, possess, sell or otherwise transfer any "stun gun".

(3) Penalty. Any person violating any provision of this Section shall be subject to a fine of not more than three hundred (300) dollars and/or imprisonment for not more than ninety (90) days.

[Rauswaffen]

§908. Prohibited offensive weapons.
(a) Offense defined.-A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if, except as authorized by law, he makes repairs, sells, or otherwise deals in, uses, or possesses any of fensive weapon.
(b) Exceptions.
(1) It is a defense under this section for the defendant to prove by a preponderance of evidence that he possessed or dealt with the weapon solely as a curio or in a dramatic per formance, or that, with the exception of a bomb, grenade or incendiary device, he complied with the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. §5801 et seq.), or that he possessed it briefly in consequence of having found it or taken it from an aggressor, or under circumstances simi larly negativing any intent or likelihood that the weapon would be used unlawfully.
(2) This section does not apply to police forensic firearms experts or police forensic firearms laboratories. Also exempt from this section are forensic firearms experts or forensic firearms laboratories operating in the ordinary course of business and engaged in lawful operation who notify in writing, on an annual basis, the chief or head of any police force or police department of a city, and, elsewhere, the sheriff of a county in which they are located, of the possession, type and use of offensive weapons.
(3) This section shall not apply to any person who makes, repairs, sells or otherwise deals in, uses or possesses any firearm for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Com monwealth.
(c) Definitions.-As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:
"Firearm." Any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive, or the frame or receiver of any such weapon. "Offensive weapons" Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mecha nism, or otherwise, any stun gun, stun baton, taser or other electronic or electric weapon or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.
(d) Exemptions.-The use and possession of blackjacks by the following persons in the course of their duties are exempt from this section:
(1) Police officers, as defined by and who meet the requirements of the act of June 18, 1974 (PL. 359, No. 120), referred to as the Municipal Police Education and Training Law.
(2) Police officers of first class cities who have successfully completed training which is substantially equivalent to the program under the Municipal Police Education and Training Law.
(3) Pennsylvania State Police officers.
(4) Sheriffs and deputy sheriffs of the various counties who have satisfactorily met the requirements of the Municipal Police Education and Training Law.
(5) Police officers employed by the Commonwealth who have satisfactorily met the requirements of the Municipal Police Education and Training Law.
(6) Deputy sheriffs with adequate training as determined by the Pennsylvania Commis sion on Crime and Delinquency.
(7) Liquor Control Board agents who have satisfactorily met the requirements of the Municipal Police Education and Training Law.
(Chgd. by L.2002, Act 132(1), eff. 1/5/2003.)

*bold is mine*

IANAL, but it would seem that a lawful firearm owner would be exempt from the listed offensive weapons in §908 (c). This would enclude tazers etc. This and the other posts given here seem to indicate that they are perfectly legal. But as said above, beware of local regulations.

O yeah, IANAL.

[JCWohlschlag]

IANAL, but it would seem that a lawful firearm owner would be exempt from the listed offensive weapons in §908 (c). This would enclude tazers etc.

Actually, the § 908(b)(3) statement of non-applicability may not mean what you think it means. Adam-12 addressed it pretty well in another post:

(3) This section shall not apply to any person who makes, repairs, sells or otherwise deals in, uses or possesses any firearm for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.

The issue here is "apply to any person who..." That describes an activity that "this section" doesn't apply to; it doesn't create a class of persons that "this section" doesn't apply to. So if you're making, fixing, dealing, using or possessing guns lawfully, then this section doesn't apply to what you're doing. Namely, this section doesn't forbid you to keep on making, fixing, dealing, using and possessing firearms lawfully.

It passes the "common-sense" litmus test: Why would it be illegal for me to carry "metal knuckles" in one pocket, if I am legally allowed to carry a gun in the other pocket?

Here you make a good point, but I'm afraid it actually fails the common-sense litmus test. § 908 also forbids hand grenades. So your reading of part (3) would mean that LTCF holders can have hand grenades.

Which is indeed too good to be true.

However, § 908 is rendered (partially) inapplicable in another way:

18 Pa.C.S. § 908: Prohibited offensive weapons

(a) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if, except as authorized by law, he makes repairs, sells, or otherwise deals in, uses, or possesses any offensive weapon.

The “authorization by law” for possession of electronic incapacitation devices (and only electronic incapacitation devices) comes from § 908.1(b):

§ 908.1: Use or possession of electric or electronic incapacitation device

(b) Self defense.--A person may possess and use an electric or electronic incapacitation device in the exercise of reasonable force in defense of the person or the person's property pursuant to Chapter 5 (relating to general principles of justification) if the electric or electronic incapacitation device is labeled with or accompanied by clearly written instructions as to its use and the damages involved in its use.

(c) Prohibited possession.--No person prohibited from possessing a firearm pursuant to section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms) may possess or use an electric or electronic incapacitation device.

So, as long as your electronic incapacitation device comes with instructional and warning stickers or documentation, and you are not a person prohibited from possessing firearms by § 6105, you may possess and use it for self defense (barring any other municipal laws that prohibit it for where you are).

[Rauswaffen]

Actually, the § 908(b)(3) statement of non-applicability may not mean what you think it means. Adam-12 addressed it pretty well in another post:
However, § 908 is rendered (partially) inapplicable in another way:

18 Pa.C.S. § 908: Prohibited offensive weapons

(a) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if, except as authorized by law, he makes repairs, sells, or otherwise deals in, uses, or possesses any offensive weapon.

The “authorization by law” for possession of electronic incapacitation devices (and only electronic incapacitation devices) comes from § 908.1(b):

§ 908.1: Use or possession of electric or electronic incapacitation device

(b) Self defense.--A person may possess and use an electric or electronic incapacitation device in the exercise of reasonable force in defense of the person or the person's property pursuant to Chapter 5 (relating to general principles of justification) if the electric or electronic incapacitation device is labeled with or accompanied by clearly written instructions as to its use and the damages involved in its use.

(c) Prohibited possession.--No person prohibited from possessing a firearm pursuant to section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms) may possess or use an electric or electronic incapacitation device.

So, as long as your electronic incapacitation device comes with instructional and warning stickers or documentation, and you are not a person prohibited from possessing firearms by § 6105, you may possess and use it for self defense (barring any other municipal laws that prohibit it for where you are).

Man they word these things weird.

So pretty much what that means is that, and most likely I am wrong here, that 908(c) makes the action of possessing a firearms etc. an exception.
Why do these damn lawmakers make it so complicated. I wish the titles and nobility amendment wasn't forgotten.