AR-15 PSP "Pistol" paperwork question

[rstel]

Hi all,

First post and maybe it's a silly question?

My son was home for the weekend (He is Stationed in Norfolk and his ship is in port) and we went to the York gun show.

In May, he got home on leave when first returning from the Middle East and persuaded me to buy an M-4. I have hated the AR with a passion since I was in the Navy (had M-14) and never would have an AR in my collection (except for Stoner's AR-18/180). I am mostly a Garand and Other Vintage WW2 Long Arms Shooter

So, I ended up buying one with the caveat that he could buy it from me for what I paid once he got his fiances in order (he has all that good combat-zone taxfree money from this deployment and was setting up to get himself a specific Trans Am he has always wanted)

Anyway, he laughs and says "I have Black Rifle Fever" now and told him he would have to get his own since this M4 is staying with me.

So, at York he gets with the great guy from Hanover Shooting Supplies and purchases his M-4. However, he now has to fill out the "Pistol" paperwork!

Although joking with our FFL Dealer about it, does this mean that you actually could carry an AR-15 "concealed" if you have a CCP? And would that also mean that you could carry that AR concealed in the states that have reciprocity with PA?

If PA considers it a "pistol" its a pistol and would be covered under a CCP right?

[Xringshooter]

Short answer is that an M-4gery (a semi-auto version of the selective fire military M-4) is a RIFLE, no matter what PA says. The BATFE considers it a long arm (shotgun or rifle). There is a detailed, on going discussion about this maneuver that the PSP is trying to get gun dealers to do. You can read all about it here:

http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-...le-stocks.html

Also, PA does not have a CCP (Concealed Carry Permit), it is a LTCF (License To Carry Firearm). Many states that have CCP's you must designate what handgun you are going to be carrying, it is on the permit, and is the only handgun you can carry. PA's LTCF says that you are allowed to carry whatever firearm you wish.

See http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/496...-firearms.html for the myriad of ways that firearm is defined.

All the particulars of holding a PA LTCF are enumerated in the PA Uniform Firearms Act (links can be found in several places on the forum.)

I'm sure that you will receive more replies in the not too distant future.

[mojo]

+1 Xringshooter

But as PA Patriot stated (I hope this is right) in another tread ....

You are able to open carry a rifle on foot. So even without a LTCF and the AR being designated as a pistol, you should be able to carry it.

Now, I'm saying that it would be a good idea. Just saying what the laws are.

Here is the tread .... http://forum.pafoa.org/rifles-42/580...ing-rifle.html

[TXDMERC73]

u can carry an AR15 during a state of emergency with a LTCF, like if there was a state of emergency like Katrina in Louisana ,there was picture of a guy walking around carrying an ak47 with a ar15 around his back on a sling....if that guy was allowed to do that then we should too ,to protect from looters.

[knight0334]

Just to muddy the waters even more.. In PA you dont need any license to carry a long gun openly or concealed, except in a City of the First Class or during an emergency. Just remember, NO loaded longguns in vehicles in PA.

And for poops and giggles, even if PA were to call the AR15 a "pistol", you'd still have to carry what the other states lawfully allow when in those other states. If the logic suggested by the OP applied, then people with FL CWL's could carry brassknucks, long daggers, nunchucks, blackjacks, etc, while in PA - which isn't the case..

[Xringshooter]

All the repliers after me are correct of course. I was just commenting on the PSP trying to call it a handgun.

Anyone applying for and receiving an LTCF should get a copy of the UFA and really understand what they can and can't do. Many people get the LTFC (good for them) but have absolutely no idea what their responsibilities are as carriers of firearms. As far as that goes, anyone that owns firearms should have a reference copy. (I was going to say to have a copy to understand, but if even the PSP doesn't understand/follow the laws, how can the average person?)

[Karma8541]

All the repliers after me are correct of course. I was just commenting on the PSP trying to call it a handgun.

Anyone applying for and receiving an LTCF should get a copy of the UFA and really understand what they can and can't do. Many people get the LTFC (good for them) but have absolutely no idea what their responsibilities are as carriers of firearms. As far as that goes, anyone that owns firearms should have a reference copy. (I was going to say to have a copy to understand, but if even the PSP doesn't understand/follow the laws, how can the average person?)

Exactly, How can we follow the UFA and the PSP does not....Either a person follows the UFA and gets in trouble by PSP, Or you dont follow and still get in trouble..

[knight0334]

Is there any talk of any FFL's or organizations taking up a legal challenge on the PSP's labeling of the AR15 receivers and long guns?

[Xringshooter]

So far none that I know of. I think we're all waiting to see whatthe legal department comes up with and what ttype of letter or notification we receive. Until then, I do AR's the way I've been doing them for the last 10 years, by the documents that have directed me how to do it, not some verbal command from someone who does not make the laws.

[Ten*K]

well, you could just get an AR pistol, and if you could find an In-Waist-Band holster to accommodate it you'd be fine... but I cant even find ANY holster for mine... so...