S&W M&P problems

[synergy]

A LOT of people out there have regarded the M&P as the "equal" of the Glock (or XD, for those who feel the need to spit when they utter the G-Word).

I personally saw a number of issues with the platform, which I outlined here:
http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=8167

Since then I've been called a "Glock kool-aid drinker" on PLENTY of occasions.

Well, it looks like I'm no longer the only one to speak up about problems with the platform.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=30298

I've had the chance to witness a LOT of guns go boom. There is a reason I still carry a Glock.

I do like the options the M&P offers folks, and like the concept. However it is still "teething", and thus I will not recommend them as the equal of Glock's or HK's.

[andrewjs18]

Lets hope I don't have any problems with my M&P 9mm.

Jim, don't jinx it!

[NineseveN]

Dude, don't take this the wrong way, but you're trying too hard. I fear that much of what you have been posting is being lost on people due to the presentation and the fuzzy nature of your claims. This isn't an indictment of your posts so much as an ad hoc analysis wherein it is apparent that the sheer volume of failures and stoppages that you have witnessed dwarfs just about anyone in the shooting world. Now perhaps you're just being bold for effect or subconsciously embellishing or emboldening your claim (since we're only talking adjectives, not real numbers, it's fuzzily subjective), but after reading the extraordinary volume of stoppages that you've witnessed this past year alone with such a wide variety of guns, I just find it hard to swallow in total. And many of the replies that I see you getting, especially as of late, have that "whatever buddy" vibe to them.

You should know I have no ax to grind with you personally, but seriously, you're trying too hard. Guys with the knowledge, experience and especially the credentials generally don't push as hard as you do, guys like MarcS do. That's not really the kind of company you want to be in if your goal is the exchange of ideas and the imparting of wisdom.

Sure, there are exceptions, and maybe that's just your personality, but if your intent is to disperse your observations and experiences to the masses, then you have a lot to learn about delivery. Just my unsolicited 2 cents, I have no dog in this fight, I hate the M&P personally.

Take care man, and good luck with this thread.

[hzox221]

No problems with my M&P's, and that is coming from a dyed in the wool 1911 user. I guess some people need to bitch about every percieved issue.

[Lycanthrope]

My STI will chamber a much wider range of rounds that my Glock will.

The STI will run rounds from factory length to beyond 1.20 in .40 caliber. My Glock will not. My STI will feed empty casing from the mag, my Glock will only do this half the time. My STI is almost impossible to limp wrist (I can't do it with shooting with only 3 fingers). My Glock is easy to limp wrist and cause stoppages.

That's why I carry a 1911 and have been called a disciple of JMB.

As a RO, I get to see a ton of rounds go downrange in a number of different platforms. I see a lot of malfunctions in all platforms and I've been sprayed with plastic when guns went Kb(!).

Not picking on Glocks, but I'm not the only one who is seeing problems.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1048944
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1048420
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1023139

...................

Now....while all of the above information is TRUE....it is completely anecdotal and isn't really worth anything save for a small case study that opposes the OP. In other words, take it as some basic information, but never think of it as "Truth". This is often my problem with taking advice from "experts" of any kind when they speak in a "matter of fact" type of manner.

Statistically, even if you spent 10 years on the range watching rounds go from a number of different semi-automatic guns, if you didn't accurately log the magazine type, the ammunition type, the shooter's grip, the weapons cleaning/maintenance regimen...on and on...you really can't state that the gun platform is the cause of issues. It may be related, but you can't say it caused the problem. There are very few valid and reliable studies done regarding guns these days....at least not that I've seen.

LycanneverhadtroublewithanM&Pthrope

[synergy]

Dude, don't take this the wrong way, but you're trying too hard. I fear that much of what you have been posting is being lost on people due to the presentation and the fuzzy nature of your claims. This isn't an indictment of your posts so much as an ad hoc analysis wherein it is apparent that the sheer volume of failures and stoppages that you have witnessed dwarfs just about anyone in the shooting world. Now perhaps you're just being bold for effect or subconsciously embellishing or emboldening your claim (since we're only talking adjectives, not real numbers, it's fuzzily subjective), but after reading the extraordinary volume of stoppages that you've witnessed this past year alone with such a wide variety of guns, I just find it hard to swallow in total. And many of the replies that I see you getting, especially as of late, have that "whatever buddy" vibel to them.

You should know I have no ax to grind with you personally, but seriously, you're trying too hard. Guys with the knowledge, experience and especially the credentials generally don't push as hard as you do, guys like MarcS do. That's not really the kind of company you want to be in if your goal is the exchange of ideas and the imparting of wisdom.

Sure, there are exceptions, and maybe that's just your personality, but if your intent is to disperse your observations and experiences to the masses, then you have a lot to learn about delivery. Just my unsolicited 2 cents, I have no dog in this fight, I hate the M&P personally.

Take care man, and good luck with this thread.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at. I don't remember MarcS too well...

The range I worked at was HUGELY busy, so being the RO there, I got to see a lot of guns jam up on people. Keep in mind, that M&P post I made is about 18 months old....and it wasn't like all those failures occurred in my hands. A few broken parts were found when I cleaned them, later. The problems I've seen pop up with guns has really been over more like 3 years, than 1...

If I didn't think what I've seen is representative, or true...then I wouldn't post it. Ultimately, what people carry or like, has no effect on me.

When I see people saying stuff that I've personally seen to be un-true, then I tend to chime in and share my experience illustrating why I disagree.

But don't worry, I'm gonna be gone for quite a while soon, and wont be posting anything (including hard to swallow info) for a long time.

[NineseveN]

But don't worry, I'm gonna be gone for quite a while soon, and wont be posting anything (including hard to swallow info) for a long time.

Well, good luck in whatever endeavor is taking you away. Peace.

[LittleRedToyota]

My STI will chamber a much wider range of rounds that my Glock will.

The STI will run rounds from factory length to beyond 1.20 in .40 caliber. My Glock will not. My STI will feed empty casing from the mag, my Glock will only do this half the time. My STI is almost impossible to limp wrist (I can't do it with shooting with only 3 fingers). My Glock is easy to limp wrist and cause stoppages.

That's why I carry a 1911 and have been called a disciple of JMB.

As a RO, I get to see a ton of rounds go downrange in a number of different platforms. I see a lot of malfunctions in all platforms and I've been sprayed with plastic when guns went Kb(!).

Not picking on Glocks, but I'm not the only one who is seeing problems.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1048944
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1048420
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1023139

...................

Now....while all of the above information is TRUE....it is completely anecdotal and isn't really worth anything save for a small case study that opposes the OP. In other words, take it as some basic information, but never think of it as "Truth". This is often my problem with taking advice from "experts" of any kind when they speak in a "matter of fact" type of manner.

Statistically, even if you spent 10 years on the range watching rounds go from a number of different semi-automatic guns, if you didn't accurately log the magazine type, the ammunition type, the shooter's grip, the weapons cleaning/maintenance regimen...on and on...you really can't state that the gun platform is the cause of issues. It may be related, but you can't say it caused the problem. There are very few valid and reliable studies done regarding guns these days....at least not that I've seen.

LycanneverhadtroublewithanM&Pthrope

this is a great post...

and that is coming from a certified glock-a-holic.

[Yoder]

My STI will chamber a much wider range of rounds that my Glock will.

The STI will run rounds from factory length to beyond 1.20 in .40 caliber. My Glock will not. My STI will feed empty casing from the mag, my Glock will only do this half the time. My STI is almost impossible to limp wrist (I can't do it with shooting with only 3 fingers). My Glock is easy to limp wrist and cause stoppages.

That's why I carry a 1911 and have been called a disciple of JMB.

As a RO, I get to see a ton of rounds go downrange in a number of different platforms. I see a lot of malfunctions in all platforms and I've been sprayed with plastic when guns went Kb(!).

Not picking on Glocks, but I'm not the only one who is seeing problems.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1048944
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1048420
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1023139

...................

Now....while all of the above information is TRUE....it is completely anecdotal and isn't really worth anything save for a small case study that opposes the OP. In other words, take it as some basic information, but never think of it as "Truth". This is often my problem with taking advice from "experts" of any kind when they speak in a "matter of fact" type of manner.

Statistically, even if you spent 10 years on the range watching rounds go from a number of different semi-automatic guns, if you didn't accurately log the magazine type, the ammunition type, the shooter's grip, the weapons cleaning/maintenance regimen...on and on...you really can't state that the gun platform is the cause of issues. It may be related, but you can't say it caused the problem. There are very few valid and reliable studies done regarding guns these days....at least not that I've seen.

LycanneverhadtroublewithanM&Pthrope

My Glock was $400 how much was your STI?

[NineseveN]

My Glock was $400 how much was your STI?

Well, I have a little more than $2000 into mine, so I'm guessng Lycan has a bit more since he's run just about every parts combination he could think of. He's nutty like that.


Of course, I don't think cost was necessarily the point; that's like saying, "My Corvette was $50,000, how much was your Techart Porsche?" If you have the money and the desire to spend it on the Techart/STI, then go for it. The increase in quality and performance is there, but as Lycan is fond of saying, (paraphrased) it's just not linear. A $2000 gun isn't going to necessarily be twice the gun a $1000 piece is. You end up paying a lot for each extra small improvement in performance, quality, fit, finish, style, individual preference etc...and much of the above is subjective anyway.