Point values for Concealed Carry

**roland** · April 29th, 2009, 04:12 PM

I was watching a show called Best Defense on the outdoor channel this afternoon. Larry Potterfield of Midway USA gives a description of concealed carry rating. But the pistol he is shooting is not concealed and is sitting on a table next to him. He goes on to say that the time to first hit on a pie plate in 3 seconds, 20 feet, was given a point value. This is all done with one hand.

Here:

3 sec. 100
2.9 sec 127
2.8 sec 153
2.7 sec 180
2.6 sec 206
2.7 sec 233
This goes down in 0.1 sec to 1.5 sec. and I can't read the score amount.

then gave points to the number of hits in the next 3 seconds (also one hand):

5 hits 100
4 hits 80
3 hits 60
2 hits 40
1 hit 20

The starting postition was gun on table and hands by your side.

There was also a point value on the caliber regarding knockdown power. (We're not going to discuss this part

) But each caliber had a specific point value attached to it, but I couldn't make it out. 22 short was the lowest though (47).

This was scoring a handgun for concealed carry and seems to be out of a score of 1000.

It seemed to me to be pretty arbitrary, as this is really shooter dependent.

I've never heard of this. Has anyone else? Can yins provide additional info on it? Like what it's based on. Where to get more info?

**LittleRedToyota** · April 29th, 2009, 04:24 PM

can't find much on it, but there is a tiny little bit more in this thread on some other forum:

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ng-system.html

my take is...

is this the same show that once promoted the idea that birdshot is the best home defense shotgun load?

if so, i have already written off whatever they say.

even if not, any point system for CC:

1. that pretends there is such a thing as stopping power in a handgun;
2. where the gun is picked up off of the table rather than drawn from concealment;
3. where there is only 1 tester;

etc. etc.

is worthless at best, imho.

**roland** · April 29th, 2009, 04:51 PM

I hear ya LRT. Uh, yeah, it might be the same show. I also did some google-fu and found Larry's email, so I sent him this.

Hello Mr. Potterfield

I'm contacting you to request additional information on the point system I've seen you use on the Outdoor Channel, Best Defense show. I couldn't read the point allotments given to the varrious calibers as well as the amount of points given during the first shot fired. If you could reply with those I'd appreciate it. And if you could tell me if it was based on testing or provided by a gov't agency as part of an evalution proceedure. It was a good show. Thank you for your time in reading this. Sincerly, Roland

I'm just really curious about this point system, not that it is very valueable, but maybe something to do for practice and see how it ranks. Just curious.

**Scrumpyjack** · April 29th, 2009, 04:58 PM

The show will repeat on Outdoor Channel later tonite. You'll be able to watch it again.

**granuale** · April 30th, 2009, 03:24 AM

When I used to shoot at the NRA range, you could program the target to pop out for a number of seconds, then swing back. With my hands by my side I could draw and shoot all 5 from my J frame into a paper plate in 3 seconds at 15 feet.

**roland** · May 5th, 2009, 02:22 PM

Just got a reply back from Larry.

I want to start with an apology for the slow response. Ever since the election my inbox has been overflowing and it is taking me a while to respond to everyone. We have not published the charts yet, and the main reason is this is not a comprehensive or definitive look at the issue because of the time constraints we are under for TV presentation. My intent for these segments is really just to get shooters in the audience talking amongst themselves about what works for them and why. Perhaps with a bit more polish this would be ready for publication. I am giving you a link to the spots on our website, that way you can watch any of them again that you like. This week filmed some more, the Colt 1911 45 acp, the Baby Browning 25 acp and the Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Magnum, so watch for those soon. I am glad you enjoy the TV spots. I have to confess, when I started the business over thirty years ago I never thought I would have ended up on Television!

http://www.midwayusa.com/static/how_...homepage050109

Thanks For Your Business,

Larry Potterfield

CEO

MidwayUSA

NRA Benefactor Member

I didn't check out the link yet. But will after I post this. His response I think is a good one. He should state that on the spots. Sorta like a disclaimer. But hey, he replied. +1 for that.

**roland** · May 5th, 2009, 02:29 PM

The link is good, but you have scroll down to the conceal carry eval. and then pick one of the listed guns and see how it rates according to the previously described uh, stuff. Although it's arbitrary, I think it's an interesting way to evaluate a handgun. Even though it's not scientific.

Pretty interesting overall.

**roland** · May 5th, 2009, 04:23 PM

Here's the response I sent him regarding his reply:

I'm glad that you had time to respond. I visited the link you provided, and I really like the reviews you performed. I think the "spots" are very informative, and the way you imply to find the results for yourself is very well done. My only concern or issue, if you don't mind me saying, is the term "knockdown power". As you know it is a well discussed subject. I prefer the term "wounding capabilities". The reason I prefer this terminology is you get away from the old arguments of knockdown power. I believe it was Col. Martin Fackler is the one who originally coined the phrase "wounding capabilties" from a symposium he did for the IWBA, International Wound Ballistics Association. Which, I believe he is also the founder of that organization.

Once again, very good show or spot. It's very informative and provokes the viewers to think more about their conceal carry pieces.

Sincerly, Roland

I hope I don't come across as some kind of brown-noser. But I really hate the term "knockdown Power", kinda implies more than what it really is. You know what I mean?