Ithaca M1911A1

[Rodrigo]

I wanted to post this in this forum because I did a little research and found that 2 years ago a similar tread got very informed and interesting feedback here. I've just got a Ithaca M1911A1 .45 pistol, for what I've been able to find, it's a low series Ithaca made in 1943 (880,XXX), and wondered how original it is. Here are some pictures:





Finish is bad, there are a couple large stains behind the trigger, and a "7" on the trigger guard:


There's a "F" inspector mark instead of the more common "FJA":


There's a strange mark at the top of the slide.


Hammer and back side of the grip are checkered:




Trigger:


Inside the frame, I found what's called "the flaming bomb" mark:


Barrel is black, in great shape and has a "HS" marking:


I found bad rust under the plastic grips (not visible with the grips in place), and a "G5" marking on the righ side:


One grip has this marking, I've seen similar ones but with a "1" instead of the "7" number:


What can you tell me about it? My first urge is to restore, give it a new parkerized finish and grips, preserving the original look, but I don't want to lower its collector and historical value if it's got some. Please help me decide what to do. Either way, it's a keeper, and a shooter.

Best,

Rod.

[PA Rifleman]

Rod:

Your Ithaca should have a phosphated finish which may vary somewhat from dark grey to dark green, and always flat. It appears either your Ithaca's finish is worn smooth or perhaps someone tried reblueing it?

The parts appear to be mostly correct, I think the HS mark on the barrel is High Standard. It should also have "FJA" on the frame near the trigger, for Frank J Atwood (then inspector).

Your first photo shows some glare around the thumb safety, suggesting maybe this part was heavily buffed -? I can't tell due to the lighting when this photo was taken.

The following photos may help you evaluate the completeness and condition of your M1911A1.

Here's my 1943:



Note the two-tone appearance at the muzzle and the slide stop, caused by the heat treatment. This was cause for initial concern, but was later deemed not to be cause for rejection.




Here's a closeup of the FJA stamp. The mag release is a commercial replacement I installed about 15 years ago, as I was shooting this 1911 a lot. Despite the sewer pipe grade bore, it's one of the more accurate handguns in my modest collection. The color in this photo is a good representation of the actual parkerizing on this pistol, although it isn't original.

Here's the bore if you want a gander, it'll enlarge if you click on the image.





I have seen knurled mainspring housings like yours, here's the housing on my Ithaca. The one example I have like this is a 1943 Remington Rand (below). It's quite possible they were switched around during the war. Note the darker colored extractor. It's a commercial replacement, I retired the original to preserve it.



Knurled mainspring housing on a 1943 Remington Rand M1911A1.



Here's a closeup of the slide markings.



This is a 1943 Remington-Rand, it has the original finish. I need to take a better photo of this one.

[Rodrigo]

Thanks rifleman, great amount of info.
I've received a couple good opinions in the Colt forum, stating that mine is genuine Ithaca, but nobody is totally convinced about the finish. I've seen other Ithacas in the net, and yours is the most different one, I thought these guns were parkerized, not phosphated, you're the only person who pointed this out.
What series is your Ithaca? Mine is 880,XXX
Question is, should I give it a new finish?

Thanks,

Rod.

[brian]

the course checkering on the msh abd trigger spur on correct for an early ithaca.
the hs on the barrel is high standard and correct.
the messed up p in front of the rear sight is a proof mark and correct.

you did'nt picture or mention either, but the slide stop and thumb safety should also be checkered.

the f inspectors stamp is very odd. as the only one it should have is the fja.
the f you have is in the right spot, but it's like the j and a have been buffed off, tho it does not appear to have been buffed. no inspector used just the letter f.

with a serial of 880xxx your pistol left the factory in a 1000 pistol shipment either september 2nd or the 7th(of '43) depending what those other three digits of the serial are. both shipments were sent raritan ordnance depot in nj.

all the proof and ordnance marks on it, were stamped after it was finished.
the serial was stamped after it was finished.
so there should be no finished in the bottoms of the stamps.

the stocks were made by the keyes fiber company for either ithaca, rr or us&s, but they are the later style....they have the reinforcing ring around the screw holes

[GoldWinger]

Hey Rifleman!

Any idea of what causes the two tone effect on the slide? I saw a Union Switch & Signal 1911A1 this past weekend with a similar two tone look.

[brian]

heat treating.
only the front little bit of the slide was treated. that affected the coloring of finish.

[GoldWinger]

Thanks. .

[PA Rifleman]

Hey Rifleman!

Any idea of what causes the two tone effect on the slide? I saw a Union Switch & Signal 1911A1 this past weekend with a similar two tone look.

It's common on wartime 1911s. Please advise if you bump into a decent US&S 1911A1 for under two kilobucks, I'm on the prowl for one. I have a gun education seminar re: Penna-made guns that's getting traction in schools.

... I thought these guns were parkerized, not phosphated, you're the only person who pointed this out.
...

Parkerizing* is a trade name for the phosphating process, In our context they're essentially the same. Variations: zinc phosphating, iron phosphating, maganese phosphating, etc.

Also see:

Note the two-tone appearance at the muzzle and the slide stop, caused by the heat treatment. This was cause for initial concern, but was later deemed not to be cause for rejection.

*Parker Chemical Co., although I believe the trademark is currently held by Henkel Adhesives Technologies.

[brian]

the finish on this pistol could have been dulite......which is blued over sandblasting.
it's right around the time they switched from dulite to parking.

[PAhunter]

Rodrigo, A lot of folks here are well schooled on the 1911, Brian and PA Rifleman
are good examples, but you might look here if you haven't already.

BTW I'm jealous, wish I had the opportunity to pick up a nice piece of nostalgia like that.

Welcome to the forum.