I have some questions reguarding my "encounter" today

[Pa. Patriot]

after reading some of these posts from you people its just staggering how idk retarded people can be....
.

Others have taken the kinder gentler approach. I see it has not worked. I will not be so gentle.

So, I suggest listening to the wisdom being offered to you in this thread.
You solicited advice and so far you have received stellar replies. You're just perhaps too young to realize it yet.

There is a wise man phrase: The best way to "win" a gun fight is to not get in one.

Avoidance is key.

We can easily tailor this your conundrum.

The best way to "win" a fight with a drunk is not to get in one.

Sorry, YOU put yourself in this situation. Did the asshole take your property? Yes. Should you have seen it coming? Yeah, the way your story reads only an absolute naive or worse, bravado fool would not see the potential for trouble brewing after all the indicators YOU posted about the events leading up to the "issue". There was plenty of indicators that this was not a good place to be, for you, today.

Bottom line, the way I read your own account is that You fucked up by allowing yourself to be involved in a situation with a drunk, controlling and legally authoritative (the property owner) situation. You were not walking down the public street minding your own business. You were on his property, in his castle, and you really have no recourse.

If you were as wise as you are snotty with your elders here you would have left as soon as you acknowledged the old man was drunk.
Sorry this situation is 51% your bad and 49% his.

I hope this has been a good lesson for you. even if the payload is not apparent until you are 33.

Sure, he fucked up, he stole your property and assaulted you.
Go ahead and report it to the police. Since you have your property back they will have nothing to investigate. And when they do they will question your role in the escalation of the issue, on HIS property, since you were a willing participant and did not leave.

Sorry you do not like the advice you have received thus far. I can remember being pretty pissy myself at your age when the reality of what I put myself in did not concur with my own arrogant will and desire of how I thought things should go.

Learn from your mistake, or not, I'm not too concerned. But do not start calling people here names because they see this situation as partly your own fault.

[Frenchy]

Act old? Aren't you the president of the PAFOA old fart club?

Act old? YOU ARE OLD!

Just cause I started it, dont make me the Prez... I feel old some days, but wait, ill send you pics of some of the handy work i been doing outside lately, You will understand why.

[mickey01023]

Ok , Im going to try to be as gentle as possible . In the grand scheme of things , one could probably forgive your run on sentences and horrible writing given the circumstances you said you were in at the time of writing your account . And even thats being generous , however ..........................

You may not " like " it , but appearances do in fact matter, especially if you want to be taken seriously . I can understand to some degree that you might feel frustrated or something that you came here to vent and are being " attacked " or perhaps strongly chastised is a better phrase for making some incredibly poor choices under a high stress situation , the very anthesis of the mindset needed to be involved in ANY type of Law Enforcement Career .

When this was mentioned already , you stated , rather cavelierly that you werent necessarily going for a LEO career , and even if you did and it came up your reaction would essentially be " so what and see ya later " . May I ask then what is the point of going to College as a CJ Major ??

As for being " attacked " If everything went the way you described , your actions , as others have said , are fully deserving of being attacked . Exercising the right to own and carry deadly weapons comes with a HUGE amount of HYPER RESPONSIBILITY , for YOU and your ACTIONS will ALWAYS be under the microscope , and fair or not , the rest of the gun owning community will be judged as well . Thats just the way it is .

If you cant or wont except the responsibilty demanded of you , and then get pissy when you call a well respected , long term member a "blockhead " for calling you on the carpet , then shake the sand out of your mangina and sulk in the corner , cause you have a shit load to learn son ......................

idk man its where im from and the way i was brought up as a person and around guns....you don't ever touch someone elses gun without permission EVER. I don't think thats just my golden rule or just my house hold i think it applys pretty much everywhere. I don't know you guy say the gun being a in lock trunk and car isn't good enough i just don't get it...i didn't think he was gonna go steal keys and take a gun like who does that drunk or not... im not stupid if i had even a notion that he was gonna try and handle my gun in ANY way i would have prevented by either siting on the trunk or grabbing it and walked away...like you guys are so hung up on that he was drunk, i know tons of people who have guns in there houses and cars and broadcast the fact of the collection and have intoxicated people over and have no problems....it seems like you people are believing im happy this happened or wanted it to happen....this was probally in the top 5 scaryest things thats happened to me, this ranks above the time i was shot at.....you had no idea what was going thro my mind when i noticed it was missing.....i was litteraly screaming the girl did you move it, cause i understand what can happen...and ya know no1 has told me yet if he had a legal right to handle my gun since it was on his property instead everyone just wants like you said "strongly chastise" and act like i was in crack house in the bad part of time cops don't go too screaming free guns in the car to anyone who can open it.....i guess when you go thro something like this anything but you think coming out of others peoples mouth just seems like ridicule....i would say this would be like if your child was missing in the morning, stomach is still in knots over this.

[Perkascene]

The night the ellipses curled up and died.

[Guns4Fun]

idk man its where im from and the way i was brought up as a person and around guns....you don't ever touch someone elses gun without permission EVER. I don't think thats just my golden rule or just my house hold i think it applys pretty much everywhere. I don't know you guy say the gun being a in lock trunk and car isn't good enough i just don't get it...i didn't think he was gonna go steal keys and take a gun like who does that drunk or not... im not stupid if i had even a notion that he was gonna try and handle my gun in ANY way i would have prevented by either siting on the trunk or grabbing it and walked away...like you guys are so hung up on that he was drunk, i know tons of people who have guns in there houses and cars and broadcast the fact of the collection and have intoxicated people over and have no problems....it seems like you people are believing im happy this happened or wanted it to happen....this was probally in the top 5 scaryest things thats happened to me, this ranks above the time i was shot at.....you had no idea what was going thro my mind when i noticed it was missing.....i was litteraly screaming the girl did you move it, cause i understand what can happen...and ya know no1 has told me yet if he had a legal right to handle my gun since it was on his property instead everyone just wants like you said "strongly chastise" and act like i was in crack house in the bad part of time cops don't go too screaming free guns in the car to anyone who can open it.....i guess when you go thro something like this anything but you think coming out of others peoples mouth just seems like ridicule....i would say this would be like if your child was missing in the morning, stomach is still in knots over this.

You still don't get it----you never should have gone in the home when you knew he was drunk and knowing what he was like when he was drunk---had you left, none of the other things would have happened.
I'm pretty sure that is all everyone is trying to tell you.

[Michele]

Am I missing something here?

Didn't you say YOU KNEW he was a long time drunkard? Always has been? Abusive? Reckless?

And you left a firearm, in HIS daughters car, IN HIS GARAGE, IN HIS HOUSE? And you let HIS daughter have the keys IN HIS HOUSE?

Yeah, I might very well be old, but I ain't senile yet!

[son of the revolution]

idk man its where im from and the way i was brought up as a person and around guns....you don't ever touch someone elses gun without permission EVER. I don't think thats just my golden rule or just my house hold i think it applys pretty much everywhere. I don't know you guy say the gun being a in lock trunk and car isn't good enough i just don't get it...i didn't think he was gonna go steal keys and take a gun like who does that drunk or not... im not stupid if i had even a notion that he was gonna try and handle my gun in ANY way i would have prevented by either siting on the trunk or grabbing it and walked away...like you guys are so hung up on that he was drunk, i know tons of people who have guns in there houses and cars and broadcast the fact of the collection and have intoxicated people over and have no problems....it seems like you people are believing im happy this happened or wanted it to happen....this was probally in the top 5 scaryest things thats happened to me, this ranks above the time i was shot at.....you had no idea what was going thro my mind when i noticed it was missing.....i was litteraly screaming the girl did you move it, cause i understand what can happen...and ya know no1 has told me yet if he had a legal right to handle my gun since it was on his property instead everyone just wants like you said "strongly chastise" and act like i was in crack house in the bad part of time cops don't go too screaming free guns in the car to anyone who can open it.....i guess when you go thro something like this anything but you think coming out of others peoples mouth just seems like ridicule....i would say this would be like if your child was missing in the morning, stomach is still in knots over this.

I tried , I really did ...............................................


This is the part your still not " getting " .

You ADMITTED you knew the guy had a history of abuse

You ADMITTED he was " on a rant " upon your arrival at his home

You ADMITTED he was apparently quite drunk during said " rant "

You KNEW you had firearms and ammunition on your person or inside the vehicle , in the presence of a clearly unstable person .

YOUR EPIC FAIL was in NOT IMMEDIATELY LEAVING , WITH YOUR WEAPONS , ON FOOT if necessary . Dont you understand that you dont get to have the luxury of assuming things when you are dealing with firearms ? ETA ( Correction , there is ONE assumption you CAN make when dealing with guns , its ALWAYS LOADED until proven otherwise )

I dont care if you were walking down Main St USA with three long guns over your shoulder , a bandolier of ammo , and four pistols around your waist . If an officer stopped you and you explained the situation you were removing yourself AND the weapons from , you probably would have gotten a " Citizen of the Month Award " .

Instead your getting the " Epic Failure in Personal Responsibility Award "

May I please now have the name and contact information of the Director of Admissions and your English Prof at the college your attending

[mickey01023]

Ok after this im done arguing. I wanted questions answered after all of your insights to the situation. I called my Great Uncle who resides in Florida, originally from Pa. He is a retired attorney, in his 60s has probably owned over 1000 guns that i know of, and retired USMC, he has as much knowledge of firearms as a gunsmith and has instructed private range training for about 5 years as a hobby and way to make the gun community safer until his back problems and gets around by way of cane, walker or scooter. He states that from a legal standpoint that I did everything that I could to secure the firearm except putting gun lock on it. He said for me to be handling the scatter gun as a form of security should be grounds of removal in his eyes. He said there is no way to prove that you knew of any intent of him "fancy word for stealing" the gun. He also said I should not be rude to people on sites like this because he has a user name on one in FL and most of the time people are only trying to help and really don't understand the whole situation. He said this no different than if the scatter gun was in your car and he went in it and took it. He said to ask would fault someone for having there car or home broken into that had firearms in it. He said a reasonable attempt was made to secure the scatter gun therefore I wouldn't liable for any crimes committed.

Then he said I have better not have left it loaded or else he'll be on the next plane and was asking if barnished my sidearm during the scuffle and how that would have been illegal since my life was not in immanent danger and the use of deadly force would earned me a murder charge.

[Frenchy]

and hes like yeah i bought the ar-15 and im gonna shoot those fucking quaders and make tons of noise they'll know not to come around here and they'll move blah blahblah...i told hm yeah there nice i want one i have my shotgun in your daughters car im not to sure if its in her name or his( its like 90 degrees here we stopped at her place to get some water or icetea)
Blah blah blah...

I check in the trunk of the car to see if maybe she put it there and forgot.....well my shotgun is missing. After searching the area i didn't find it, and i knew it wasn't taken by someone off the street because my .22 was in the backseat in a rifle case.

Later he says that the father might have stolen her purse to get the keys....

Yet he has keys to open the trunk to go check for his belt... Father prolly has a double to move the cars when needed. i know I have doubles of my car keys here...

Then he claims the guns are secure because they are in a trunk where he BRAGS before a drunken man who says he would make noise with a gun to scare people off.. and does nothing to secure them.. Goes off to pet a ferret and a cat, (they are cool) and gets upset because the drunken old man takes him up on his invitation to use the gun in the trunk...

It does almost sound like an invitation don't it?

I mean read the red. To me that is inviting a person to do just what he did. Guns in His (the drunks) garage in his car, a kid tells him where to go get the gun to make noise... Wonder who is the most guilty of foolishness here...
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Bottom line, Soberbiker will be making a new sign that says mickey01023 was on The PAFOA, this guy will leave a day or two, register a new name and start all new. Maybe he will have learnt some thing... That is a big maybe... I bet if we asked Dan, he would say most of the people who posted 1 to 30 and left came back with a new name...

[Perkascene]

Ugh. It pains me to read things like this. Being roughly in the same age group, I know there is only so much I can do to assure everyone that Generation Y is not a total lost cause (but it is pretty damn close).

Leaving the work force (by way of being laid off) and going back to school was really a revelation. I skipped going to college when I graduated high school because I had a job lined up. The whole time I was working, and really putting off going back to school, I had this impression that college was a place for lofty ideals and deep thinking. What a misconception. If I see the same kid in two classes consecutively, it's a shock.

And good Lord, you called your great uncle at 2:40am to bother him with this? The poor man is bound to a Jazzy for crying out loud, let him sleep.