Neck up or down?

[Bama Man]

I just wanted to point out one thing. There is a difference between reaming the necks and turning them. When you turn the necks, you are at times taking off a pretty significant amount of brass.

Amen, Tomcat, it's almost like 6 of this Vs a half dozen. It is all safe to do, and fun also. Reloading is such an addictive hobby.

[Farbmeister]

I squish .30-06 into 7.92x52 (8mm) and after looking into it none of the articles I read mentioned turning/reaming necks... so I didn't.

I guess you should find and many articles are you can about each cartridge and then do it and measure your results.

BUT, as a junior part time machinist I would rather turn/ream to a final size than hope to extrude the case. Simple reason is that you are in 100% control of the turning/reaming.. but are a hapless bystander in the extrusion method.

I would rather MAKE the final dimension rather than hope it magically appears.

Get a Lee Classic cast press and the alox lube.. when squishing an '06 into an 8mm I hardly feel it. And thats pushing a shoulder back about .25 inch and sizing the neck.

[Warpt762x39]

The .25 "souper" you have heard of is probably the 250 Humdinger, found in the book, Cartridges of the World.
It is a .243 necked to .257, with minimum body taper and a 45 degree shoulder angle which is similar to an Ackley shoulder.
The case is easily made by necking to .257 and fire forming.

Nope. The .25 Souper is an actual round. It's also known as the 25-308. It's a .308 case necked down to .25 caliber. That's it. It was named the Souper in the late 50s or early 60s.

The .25 Souper was originally developed by P.F. Lambert of Washington, D.C., according to Speer’s Reloading Manual for Wildcat Cartridges (Number 4), published in 1960

I read an article on it a few years ago and thought it would be something interesting to try at some point. The .260 Remington would be the same kind of thing but easier to procure the appropriate dies and a barrel.

Heck there's even match grade ammo in .260 Rem for me to compare against.

I plan on staying away from any type of improvement of any round I handload. I try to stay away from overly complicated extra steps.

Norma brass is available for the .260 but it's not as common as .243 or .308 brass. I've heard that the Remington brass for the .260 isn't exactly uniform in thickness. This will be my accuracy chaser so inconsistant brass is something I want to stay away from.

If you neck down the .308 to .260, how much "extra" brass is there at the mouth area? Couldn't that be solved with trimming the case mouth a bit before resizing?

[Flash]

Nope. The .25 Souper is an actual round. It's also known as the 25-308. It's a .308 case necked down to .25 caliber. That's it. It was named the Souper in the late 50s or early 60s.


If you neck down the .308 to .260, how much "extra" brass is there at the mouth area? Couldn't that be solved with trimming the case mouth a bit before resizing?

"Trimming" refers to "case-mouth trimming", that is, shortening (length) of the entire case by trimming length off at the case mouth

"Reaming" refers to removal of brass (thickness) from the inside of the neck area by use of a reamer, a bladed type tool

"Turning" refers to removal of the brass (thickness) of the neck area by taking it off the outside


Just definitions, to be sure, but so that everybody should be speaking the same language.

The resizing of brass, "necking down" causes the neck area to become thicker, and depending on how it is done, the neck stretches, to one degree or another. Neck expanding also causes length issues, as the annealing process which makes it easier to reform brass in ways that you DO want also makes it resize in ways you might not want.

Flash

[Warpt762x39]

"Trimming" refers to "case-mouth trimming", that is, shortening (length) of the entire case by trimming length off at the case mouth

"Reaming" refers to removal of brass (thickness) from the inside of the neck area by use of a reamer, a bladed type tool

"Turning" refers to removal of the brass (thickness) of the neck area by taking it off the outside


Just definitions, to be sure, but so that everybody should be speaking the same language.

The resizing of brass, "necking down" causes the neck area to become thicker, and depending on how it is done, the neck stretches, to one degree or another. Neck expanding also causes length issues, as the annealing process which makes it easier to reform brass in ways that you DO want also makes it resize in ways you might not want.

Flash

That's what I was asking about. If you know how much the brass will stretch is it possible to trim some off the case mouth so when the case is resized the brass stretches to fill that slight void instead of not having a place to go and thickening at the mouth.

[Flash]

That's what I was asking about. If you know how much the brass will stretch is it possible to trim some off the case mouth so when the case is resized the brass stretches to fill that slight void instead of not having a place to go and thickening at the mouth.

I understand where you want to go with that, but the process works so much better the original way. It is hard to predict with exactness where and how and exactly so, the brass will stretch. The most precise way is to do the resize forming first, then you will be able to hit your desired dimension more nearly exctly by reaming, trimming, or turning to correct final dimensions. Trying to cut to length first and hoping to expand and hit exact dimension is like trying to predict next week's stock market.

I hope that clears it, but like youerself, I would like to do it quickly, painlessly; but in this imperfect world, it ain't a' gonna happen.

Flash

[mauser]

Trimming the length first isn't going to cause the brass to flow toward the end, it doesn't know how long it is and how long it needs to be. You'll just end up with a shorter case with neck walls that are as much too thick as they would be if you wouldn't trim them first.
If the walls are too thick you'll have to take some off of the inside or the outside, length is a different issue.

P.S.
Good definitions Flash.

[Flash]

Trimming the length first isn't going to cause the brass to flow toward the end, it doesn't know how long it is and how long it needs to be. .

That's really the point I was trying to make, but you said it better. It doesn't know.

I was approaching it from a machinist's point of view. What is it in somebody's sig-line?? "It's only metal....."

Flash

[mauser]

That's really the point I was trying to make, but you said it better. It doesn't know.

I was approaching it from a machinist's point of view. What is it in somebody's sig-line?? "It's only metal....."

Flash

That would be brian...

"it's only metal, we can out think it...."