Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Cool Re: 3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE

    Quote Originally Posted by imperialism2024 View Post
    Actually, I fail to see how these aren't a big deal.

    Now, I'm going off of the descriptions provided in the OP...

    1) One of the wonderful founding principles of our great country is presumption of innocence. That is, the government is to assume that you are innocent until proven guilty of a crime by a jury of your peers. Until you are convicted of a crime, you are innocent. Any sort of punitive measure that happens before a conviction is a grave deprivation of our fundamental rights.

    Now, to bring it home, let's say that you have to shoot someone in self-defense, and he dies on the spot. Let's say he's a gang member. In some jurisdictions, you may be charged with some form of homicide until your case goes to trial and you are proven innocent. Would you like to be required to be unarmed when the gang member's thug buddies come looking for you?



    2) Drug offenses should not be disqualifying in the first place. Unless we're going to take the guns away from anyone who's ever gotten drunk, or who has ever popped an extra vicodin, I don't think we're in a place to continue the ridiculous practice of oppressing the right to effective self-defense for those who have smoked an herb unapproved by the nanny-state government. Committing a non-violent, or as I prefer to call it, a victimless crime says nothing about one's suitability to buy or own a gun. Sure, ban the wife beaters and murderers from owning guns. But non-violent child criminals? Give it a break. Not to mention that it reeks of an ex-post-facto-but-not-really law, like the Megan's Law provisions that add significant penalties after the fact.

    Today it's drugs. What non-violent offense will they do this with next time? Underage drinking? Speeding? Parking ticket?



    3) Two problems. First is that minimum sentences are always a poor idea, as they disrupt the checks and balances in government by eliminating some of the discretionary power of the judicial branch. Second is that the lack of discretion requires that the penalty be assessed regardless of circumstances. This would be requiring the same one year in prison for the gang banger who has a violent criminal past that prohibits him from getting a LTCF, as well as for the father who stops at McDonald's to get his kids a snack for the ride home from the range.



    The point is that we need fewer gun laws, not more. No new gun law is reasonable or acceptable, because they all can come around to bite peaceable gun owners in the ass.
    is it possible that the system is flawed? someone got a LTCF after getting charged with disorderly conduct and found guilty?

  2. #22
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    Default Re: 3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE

    Quote Originally Posted by TXDMERC73 View Post
    is it possible that the system is flawed? someone got a LTCF after getting charged with disorderly conduct and found guilty?
    Disorderly conduct can be a summary offense, less than even a misdemeanor.
    "When law becomes despotic, morals are relaxed, and vice versa."-- Honore de Balzac, The Wild Ass's Skin...huh, huh..Balzac...Wild Ass...huh, huh

  3. #23
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    (York County)
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    Default Re: 3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE

    Quote Originally Posted by offshorebear View Post
    PCN is replaying something from yesterday. It's Rendel calling for another assault weapon ban and repealing the Tiahrt amendments. So far he has made up a statistic about how the AWB worked amazing well to reduce crime and he said the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to "assault weapons" because they are "extremely deadly"

    Does anyone know anything about this?
    Yeah those hunting rifles and shotguns aren't 'extremely deadly' only 'mildly deadly' WTF kind of argument is that? What a dipshit.
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" -- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

  4. #24
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    Lewistown, Pennsylvania
    (Mifflin County)
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    Default Re: 3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE

    The first bill would make it illegal for anyone charged with a felony, but not yet convicted, to buy, transfer, sell, or possess a firearm.
    Ok, so what is a gun owner who gets charged with a felony to do? Can't get rid of his guns (transfer or sell) and can't keep 'em (possess). Kinda screwed there........

  5. #25
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    Lancaster, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Angry Re: 3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE

    I hope I am over thinking this. Maybe it is just me. If they pass the bill for a mandatory sentence for carrying a gun without a license. Wouldn't that, depending how it was worded, cause a law against OC without a license? Currently their is no law against OC. However OCing a gun is carrying a gun. And if you are unlicensed.... you get where I am going with this?

  6. #26
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    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: 3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE

    No they are all bullshit. I have come to the conclusion that *any* gun control is negative, period.

  7. #27
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    Leader Heights, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: 3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE

    Quote Originally Posted by Geronimo509 View Post
    http://www.philly.com/philly/news/lo...rol_bills.html



    I would like to know what you all think about this.
    Just more bullshit from some Philly legislators that's going nowhere.
    " The Seeds of Oppression Will One Day Bear The Fruit of Rebellion."

  8. #28
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    Default Re: 3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE

    Quote Originally Posted by imperialism2024 View Post
    Actually, I fail to see how these aren't a big deal.

    Now, I'm going off of the descriptions provided in the OP...

    1) One of the wonderful founding principles of our great country is presumption of innocence. That is, the government is to assume that you are innocent until proven guilty of a crime by a jury of your peers. Until you are convicted of a crime, you are innocent. Any sort of punitive measure that happens before a conviction is a grave deprivation of our fundamental rights.

    Now, to bring it home, let's say that you have to shoot someone in self-defense, and he dies on the spot. Let's say he's a gang member. In some jurisdictions, you may be charged with some form of homicide until your case goes to trial and you are proven innocent. Would you like to be required to be unarmed when the gang member's thug buddies come looking for you?



    2) Drug offenses should not be disqualifying in the first place. Unless we're going to take the guns away from anyone who's ever gotten drunk, or who has ever popped an extra vicodin, I don't think we're in a place to continue the ridiculous practice of oppressing the right to effective self-defense for those who have smoked an herb unapproved by the nanny-state government. Committing a non-violent, or as I prefer to call it, a victimless crime says nothing about one's suitability to buy or own a gun. Sure, ban the wife beaters and murderers from owning guns. But non-violent child criminals? Give it a break. Not to mention that it reeks of an ex-post-facto-but-not-really law, like the Megan's Law provisions that add significant penalties after the fact.

    Today it's drugs. What non-violent offense will they do this with next time? Underage drinking? Speeding? Parking ticket?



    3) Two problems. First is that minimum sentences are always a poor idea, as they disrupt the checks and balances in government by eliminating some of the discretionary power of the judicial branch. Second is that the lack of discretion requires that the penalty be assessed regardless of circumstances. This would be requiring the same one year in prison for the gang banger who has a violent criminal past that prohibits him from getting a LTCF, as well as for the father who stops at McDonald's to get his kids a snack for the ride home from the range.



    The point is that we need fewer gun laws, not more. No new gun law is reasonable or acceptable, because they all can come around to bite peaceable gun owners in the ass.
    I have to agree with most of what you stated, with the exception of the Megan's law reference. I believe that we are already way too lenient on the perverts that prey upon woman and innocent children. If making them register is an inconvenience and or a burden, so be it. I personally believe that they should lock them up and throw away the keys.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, and I don't even play one on the internet. Never mistake my opinion for legal advice. If you do need legal advise, seek it from those who get paid to give it, I know I do.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: 3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE

    The first bill would make it illegal for anyone charged with a felony, but not yet convicted, to buy, transfer, sell, or possess a firearm.
    This appears to be SB 415, it was posted and discussed in the Pennsylvania section.

    The second would prohibit anyone convicted of a felony drug offense as a juvenile from buying or owning a gun as an adult.
    I haven't been able to identify this bill.

    The third bill would require a mandatory one-year sentence for carrying a gun without a license. It was first introduced in 2007, but failed to move out of committee.
    This appears to be SB 412 which was also posted and discussed in the Pennsylvania section. NOTE: This provides a one year mandatory sentence for carrying concealed or in a vehicle. It does nothing that changes the staus of open carry.


    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities".

  10. #30
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    Default Re: 3 new PA gun laws, MAYBE

    I'm no gun activist, but I don't understand how stricter gun laws or outlawing assault weapons will help anything. Several days ago some lunatic in Fredrick, MD killed his wife, three children, and himself. Md has pretty extreme gun laws, but this guy was able to get his hands on one. And, it wasn't a "deadly" assault weapon, it was a 25 cal handgun. So, it seems to me that the people who shouldn't have guns will get them anyway and do whatever it is they are going to do and us lawbiding citizens will be the unarmed, unprotected individuals who are preyed upon.

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