Ban on Weapons in Berks County Parks

**jsmithxd** · May 2nd, 2007, 11:11 AM

I put in to be a death investigator and my odds of getting it are lookin promising.. I should know by the end of the week if i got it or not. If I do i'm going to take it, but I'm sure things will run smooth in the Sheriff's Office atleast until the election and if Eric gets elected it wont miss a beat. Oh, and i'll still be on the here posting...dont worry

**ChamberedRound** · May 2nd, 2007, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by jsmithxd

I put in to be a death investigator and my odds of getting it are lookin promising.. I should know by the end of the week if i got it or not. If I do i'm going to take it, but I'm sure things will run smooth in the Sheriff's Office atleast until the election and if Eric gets elected it wont miss a beat. Oh, and i'll still be on the here posting...dont worry

Not worried, just curious. I was more concerned that there was a bad feeling around the sheriff's office WRT to the election. Hope everything goes well for you with your applying to be an investigator.

**billamj** · May 2nd, 2007, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by jsmithxd

I put in to be a death investigator and my odds of getting it are lookin promising.. I should know by the end of the week if i got it or not. If I do i'm going to take it, but I'm sure things will run smooth in the Sheriff's Office atleast until the election and if Eric gets elected it wont miss a beat. Oh, and i'll still be on the here posting...dont worry

Good luck on the new job, hope it all works out for you. Moving to the Coroner's Office? Better man than me.

**SSCUSTER** · May 8th, 2007, 03:37 PM

Today I spoke with an attorney from the PA Attorney General's Office. He agreed with the person at the Sherriff's office that it is a gray area of the law. He knew of no legal precedent one way or the other regarding the county's right to ban firearms in the parks.

He said the Attorney General's office does not have any way of controlling the ordinances a county may pass; the ordinance would have to be proven to be illegal in court. He said the only thing I could do was to volunteer to be a "test case." I kindly declined. I will do everything I can to have a law changed, but I will not violate the law.

At this point, all I can think of to do is to vote for non-incumbents for County Commissioner and try to reason with the next batch of commissioners.

**jsmithxd** · May 14th, 2007, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by billamj

I mean Really. I mean who gave jsmithxd permission to quit?

I'm sure that I didn't. Dan, did you do something?

Not that it matters one iota, if you move on jsmithxd just make sure that you stay on board here.

It came down to 3 of us and i lost out for the investigator job so you guys will have to put up with me for a while longer. haha. Its been really hectic in here with the primary coming up, but once that is over we'll see if i can get anywhere with the county regarding the ordinance.

**billamj** · May 14th, 2007, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by jsmithxd

It came down to 3 of us and i lost out for the investigator job so you guys will have to put up with me for a while longer. haha. Its been really hectic in here with the primary coming up, but once that is over we'll see if i can get anywhere with the county regarding the ordinance.

Sorry to hear that you lost out on that position. Better luck next time. In the meantime we still know who to go to with questions.

**ChamberedRound** · May 15th, 2007, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by jsmithxd

It came down to 3 of us and i lost out for the investigator job so you guys will have to put up with me for a while longer. haha. Its been really hectic in here with the primary coming up, but once that is over we'll see if i can get anywhere with the county regarding the ordinance.

Sorry to hear about the position, hope it works out for you next time around when there's an opening.

**SSCUSTER** · June 5th, 2007, 03:10 PM

Working with the government is like trying to run through a deep swamp: It doesn't happen fast!

I just got this reply from Representative Rohrer. Although I don't live in his district, he, or his staff, was kind enough to respond.

To paraphrase, he agrees with me but says that I should pack in the park at my own risk.

Dear Mr. Custer,

I am always appreciative when constituents take the time to share their research regarding state law. You contacted my office concerning a possible conflict between a Berks County ordinance which prohibits concealed firearms in county parks and statutory law found in the Commonwealth’s Crimes Code.

Section 6109 of the Crimes Code, concerning licenses to carry a firearm, states:
“Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm
concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.
(emphasis added)” 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109(a).
Act 5 of 1997 removed the word “within” and replaced it with “throughout.” There does not appear to be a statutory definition of the word “throughout.” If no statutory definition exists, words “shall be construed according to… their common and approved usage.” 1 Pa.C.S. § 1903. Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary defines “throughout” as “in or to every part…all the way from one end to the other.”

While Commonwealth law does limit the possession of firearms in certain locations, e.g., courthouses, schools, prisons, etc., there does not appear to be a statutory limit imposed on county parks. See 18 Pa.C.S. § 913, 912 and 5122. The regulatory limit imposed by Berks County does appear to create a conflict concerning possession “on or about one’s person.”

In your communication with my office, you noted the language of subsection (a) of Section 6120 of the Crimes Code, which provides that,
“No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership,
possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components
when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.”

Recently, the Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court had the opportunity to rule on an issue concerning a county ordinance which limited the possession of firearms. In Minich v. County of Jefferson, the court found that a county ordinance which prohibited firearms in the courthouse was valid since it was in compliance with the state law which also prohibited firearms in a courthouse. The court explained that the county would only be prohibited from enacting an ordinance “if the ordinance would make the otherwise lawful possession of a firearm unlawful” (emphasis in the original). Minich, 869 A.2d 1141, 1143 (Pa.Cmwlth 2005), app. denied, 889 A.2d 90 (Pa. 2005).

Based on the current statutory language, as compared to the Berks County ordinance, resolution of this conflict may also require a court decision. Until the conflict is resolved, an individual carrying a firearm within a county park in violation of the current ordinance could be in jeopardy of prosecution under the regulation and its attendant penalties. It is worth noting that those penalties could, under the County Code, include significant fines and up to 10 days in jail. § 509 of the Act of August 9, 1955, P.L. 323, No. 130, known as the County Code.

It is advised that any individual seek the assistance and advice of private counsel or some other knowledgeable source, such as the county sheriff, before carrying a firearm pursuant to a Pennsylvania license to carry a firearm. I hope that this information is of some use. If I can be of further assistance on this or any other legislative matter, please do not hesitate to contact my office.

Rep. Sam Rohrer