Deadly Force House Bill...

**Chris17404** · August 14th, 2006, 07:46 AM

Hello all,

I was just watching the morning news today, and they had a brief story on a new PA House bill regarding the use of deadly force. Here's the details as I heard them. The new bill would allow those who have a CCW permit to use deadly force to protect themselves if they were ever in danger. The news story said that currently, by law, we are required to FLEE!!!

Does anyone have any more information on this new bill? I would really like to see it passed!!!

Chris

**DrakinClaw** · August 14th, 2006, 11:49 AM

in the book i just recently read, most states requir you to exaust every means of escape before being pesented with the option of lethal force, Even if you are within your own home and in the bedroom, you are rquired to try to leave your house first, or the prosicutor will paint you as the wrong kinda person.
Drak

**Steve in PA** · August 14th, 2006, 01:15 PM

Wrong info about the use of deadly force!!!!

in PA you DO NOT have to retreat before using deadly force if you are in your home or place of work (as long as you are not the initial aggressor).

Outside your home or place of work you are supposed to leave if you can do so "in complete safety" before resorting to the use of deadly force.

The new "law" would mean that as long as you are in a certain place legally, you have no duty to retreat first. Your use of deadly force would still have to be ruled justified, as in any shooting.

**Chris17404** · August 14th, 2006, 02:34 PM

By the way, here's the link to bill (House Bill 2231)...

http://www2.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/L...B2231P3110.pdf

Chris

**twiss40cal** · August 15th, 2006, 11:47 AM

This appears to be the same "no duty to retreat" bill that was passed in Florida. Has the bill been sent to the Floor for a vote? What is the current status?

**DrakinClaw** · August 15th, 2006, 12:05 PM

i stand corrected

**Flopsy** · August 23rd, 2006, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by DrakinClaw

i stand corrected

No Drakin, you were right the first time. The requirement to attempt to flee in PA applies whether you are in your home or not. If there is any doubt about this, I can post the text of the actual law.

The issue is illustrated by a current case in which a guy with a shotgun was inside his apartment, warning the two guys at his door not to break in or he'd shoot them. Well, they broke in anyway, and the guy shot and killed one of them. Now he's having charges pressed against him, and we have yet to see what happens.

In another Montgomery County case, a drunk naked guy busted into the wrong row home, thinking it was his. The homeowner filled him full of lead, and now he is in state prison.

**payola** · August 31st, 2006, 01:00 PM

In the montgomery county case, the naked guy was shot multiple times in the back and was clearly unarmed. The homeowner actually opened the door for him and allowed him to walk in before shooting him and then continue shooting and the naked guy was retreating. That's why the coward is in prison.

**Frenchy** · August 31st, 2006, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by payola

In the montgomery county case, the naked guy was shot multiple times in the back and was clearly unarmed. The homeowner actually opened the door for him and allowed him to walk in before shooting him and then continue shooting and the naked guy was retreating. That's why the coward is in prison.

This puts a new meaning to naked gun

**LittleRedToyota** · August 31st, 2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Flopsy

The requirement to attempt to flee in PA applies whether you are in your home or not. If there is any doubt about this, I can post the text of the actual law.

There is lots of doubt...as in there absolutely is NOT a requirement to flee if you are in your own house. Here is the actual law:

§ 505. Use of force in self-protection.

(a) Use of force justifiable for protection of the person.--The use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion.

(b) Limitations on justifying necessity for use of force.--

The use of force is not justifiable under this section:

to resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, although the arrest is unlawful; or

to resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:

(A) the actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest;

(B) the actor has been unlawfully dispossessed of the property and is making a reentry or recaption justified by section 507 of this title (relating to use of force for the protection of property); or

(C) the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily injury.

The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat; nor is it justifiable if:

the actor, with the intent of causing death or serious bodily injury, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or

the actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

(A) the actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be; and

(B) a public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform such duty, effect such arrest or prevent such escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom such action is directed.

Except as required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity thereof under the circumstances as he believes them to be when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

as you can see, the part stating the actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work could not be more clear. you do not have to flee if you are in your home.