school zones

[leadpusher]

is it lawful to have a loaded hand gun in your glove box when you pick or drop off your children from school, provided you have a ccw permit.

[markheck1]

Well...Uhh....Maybe.....

An exeption is made from the Federal Gun-Free Zone for a resident of the state who possesses a valid license for that state. Note I said resident, as I believe this does not apply to out of state residents possessing a Pa LTCF, or PA residents possessing only an out of state License or permit.

As far as the PA Uniform Firearms acts, Firearms are not permitted on any k-12 school grounds, however there is an exeption "For other lawful purpose" No-one has tested this clause as far as I know

Hope this helps!

[knight0334]

The short answer - NO! The grounds are prohibited too, not just the buildings.

The long answer - maybe, if you you want to be the test case for "other lawful purposes".

[headcase]

Here is the statute:

18 Pa.C.S. § 912: Possession of weapon on school property
(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nunchuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.
(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.
(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.

I'll give you an even longer answer,

It is not lawful to possess a firearm in or on the grounds of a K-12 school. It is also unlawful to possess a firearm in any conveyance providing transportation to or from a K-12 school. The argument that your own car, while transporting your kids to school, is a conveyance could be made.

There is however, the defense that the firearm is possessed for "other lawful purpose". This is generally taken to mean by permit holders, that self defense is a lawful purpose to possess a firearm, and therefore a lawful purpose under the defense in 912. On the other hand, every law enforcement agent(Police officers, D.A.s....) I have heard give a response on the subject, takes this to mean it allows only uniformed law enforcement to carry on official business. The fact is that it has never been tested in court that anyone can find. The subject seems to get avoided like the plague by prosecutors, most of us believe, because they also feel the self defense argument will hold water.

In my own personal experience, I was told by my local police, the local A.D.A., and the local school police, that as long as it is concealed on the grounds of the school, and you are licensed, you won't be bothered. If you are caught inside a school building, however, you will be arrested. I will say again, this is what I was told by my local authorities, and I would not risk my neck on it anywhere else. YMMV

The odds of you getting into a situation where school authorities are in your glovebox seem slim, though. I don't suggest you break any law. I will say that like anything else, you would have to weigh the risk of being disarmed against the risk of being caught if you test this defense.


I personally think it is ridiculous to say that having a firearm that you may keep in your glovebox legally any other time, suddenly becomes a crime because your kid missed the bus, but the argument is certainly there.

Chew on that information

[Steve in PA]

On the other hand, every law enforcement agent(Police officers, D.A.s....) I have heard give a response on the subject, takes this to mean it allows only uniformed law enforcement to carry on official business.

I have no doubt that is what you have been told.............however, those that told you this are talking out their butt hole. If it was meant for law enforcement only........it would say so, much like the exceptions to 6106.

There is nothing that says it must be on "official business".

As in the case of the Dickson City Wild Bunch the responding officers supposedly called a DA and were given WRONG info!

[cock&lock]

Here is the statute:



I'll give you an even longer answer,

It is not lawful to possess a firearm in or on the grounds of a K-12 school. It is also unlawful to possess a firearm in any conveyance providing transportation to or from a K-12 school. The argument that your own car, while transporting your kids to school, is a conveyance could be made.

There is however, the defense that the firearm is possessed for "other lawful purpose". This is generally taken to mean by permit holders, that self defense is a lawful purpose to possess a firearm, and therefore a lawful purpose under the defense in 912. On the other hand, every law enforcement agent(Police officers, D.A.s....) I have heard give a response on the subject, takes this to mean it allows only uniformed law enforcement to carry on official business. The fact is that it has never been tested in court that anyone can find. The subject seems to get avoided like the plague by prosecutors, most of us believe, because they also feel the self defense argument will hold water.

In my own personal experience, I was told by my local police, the local A.D.A., and the local school police, that as long as it is concealed on the grounds of the school, and you are licensed, you won't be bothered. If you are caught inside a school building, however, you will be arrested. I will say again, this is what I was told by my local authorities, and I would not risk my neck on it anywhere else. YMMV

The odds of you getting into a situation where school authorities are in your glovebox seem slim, though. I don't suggest you break any law. I will say that like anything else, you would have to weigh the risk of being disarmed against the risk of being caught if you test this defense.


I personally think it is ridiculous to say that having a firearm that you may keep in your glovebox legally any other time, suddenly becomes a crime because your kid missed the bus, but the argument is certainly there.

Chew on that information

Does this include sitting in the stands watching an entire football game or just being on the grounds to drop your kid off?

[gnbrotz]

Does this include sitting in the stands watching an entire football game or just being on the grounds to drop your kid off?

There is no time limit permitted as an exception. So depending on your interpretation of 'lawful purpose', it's my opinion that either both are ok, or both are prohibited.

[AverageJoe]

Also keep in mind that your vehicle (parked on school property) is subject to search on cause ... in other words, if the school rep thinks, yes ... even thinks, you may have something illegal in your car he can order your vehicle searched. The police can conduct the search acting as the schools "agent" since the school has granted them permission to do so ... without a warrant. A federal law, titled something like "safe school zone" law permits this unconstitutional behavior .... you guessed it, in the name of "safety" yet again.

[imperialism2024]

Also keep in mind that your vehicle (parked on school property) is subject to search on cause ... in other words, if the school rep thinks, yes ... even thinks, you may have something illegal in your car he can order your vehicle searched. The police can conduct the search acting as the schools "agent" since the school has granted them permission to do so ... without a warrant. A federal law, titled something like "safe school zone" law permits this unconstitutional behavior .... you guessed it, in the name of "safety" yet again.

Could you cite that, please?

I'm not calling BS (yet ), just curious to read the actual law.

[Harry]

My kids usually take a school van to and from school. The bus (van) driver(s) always see that I'm OC'ing in the morning when I load the kids for school. And for various reasons at times I pick the kids up at school myself.

When I do pick up my kids I approach the school van to let our driver know I'm there to get the kids (so he's not wondering where the hell my kids are, waiting there for nothing).

I've OC'ed a few times doing this and stood on the school sidewalk while waiting for my children to be let out. The teachers see me, the other parents have seen me and all the kids there see me.

Not sure what all this means. Am I nervous while doing so? Well, yes... But I'm not about to let anyone see me sweat. It's just something I feel very strongly about and if and when the time comes I'll face it.