Mont.Co. Apps up 6X

[TinGLOCK]

Hey TinGLOCK, come on up, we need more folks like you up here -- help us keep the libs at bay!

I just may do it! Time will tell.

[Bravo Whiskey]

In & Out in about 25 mins. and the sheriffs were all nice.
Ran into a dad (@ one of my son's functions) that I have not seen for a few months. He is is good guy and also a P.O.. He is the kind of person that you respect and value thier opinion so I chose to tell him that I went and picked up my LTCF. I was pleased to hear him say " It's good to know some of the good guys are carrying. Good thing you got it in case they take the ability away from us and never forget to renew and keep current".

[Guns4Fun]

Renewed my Montco LTCF today. Uneventful. I was the only guy in there so it only took about 15min. There was another guy that came in after me to renew his too---and one guy came in to get his first time LTCF package.

I picked up a new LTCF packet for my daughter while I was there too. I've been bugin her for a while to get hers since she's 24 now. I keep asking her what she's waiting for. So now she has no excuses about being able to get to the court house.

[ChamberedRound]

But I suspect the sheriff would say the check card is covered under his duty to "investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety." I know John Durante, the current sheriff, slightly from my days at a former job in Norristown and I will try to raise it with him when I go back to the courthouse (after I get my license!), although I doubt he'll budge, even if sued.

That's exactly the reason he's using. But in doing so he is IMHO forcing/coercing every applicant to waive their right to privacy in order to get the license, and he shouldn't be allowed to do that. When the applicant goes to their local PD for the "check card", that PD can now make a note that says, "hey, this person that lives in our town is applying for an LTCF, they probably have guns in the house", and at that point they could attempt to use that information against the applicant if they ever need to come out to your house or neighborhood. For example, if they're called out for some reason, they could assume the homeowner is armed, and even potentially use that information as PC or RAS to further infringe on the applicant's rights.

At least with references the applicant is providing the individuals whom the Sheriff will contact. In MontCo, one not only needs the references, but also needs to allow their local PD to know that an application is being filed, and that's information the PDs shouldn't be privy to.

[shiloh]

That's exactly the reason he's using. But in doing so he is IMHO forcing/coercing every applicant to waive their right to privacy in order to get the license, and he shouldn't be allowed to do that. When the applicant goes to their local PD for the "check card", that PD can now make a note that says, "hey, this person that lives in our town is applying for an LTCF, they probably have guns in the house", and at that point they could attempt to use that information against the applicant if they ever need to come out to your house or neighborhood. For example, if they're called out for some reason, they could assume the homeowner is armed, and even potentially use that information as PC or RAS to further infringe on the applicant's rights.

At least with references the applicant is providing the individuals whom the Sheriff will contact. In MontCo, one not only needs the references, but also needs to allow their local PD to know that an application is being filed, and that's information the PDs shouldn't be privy to.

Point well taken. In my case, the local PD already knows I have guns (or they know I am likely to have them), as I had to copy them on my application for a C&R license a couple years back. What has me a bit ticked off (admittedly from a purely selfish perspective) is that the local PD has had my check card for several days now and haven't signed off on it yet. I don't think that's due to anything nefarious; it's likely just bureaucratic delay. But it's unnecessary delay and aggravation because any background check the local cops do is not going to turn up anything that wouldn't come up on the PICS check the sheriff will do. I have had no arrests or any other contact with the local police (except as a complainant about some vandalism on my block). I could see, however, how it could be a real problem with someone who has had no arrests, but difficult contact with the local police, for example, in townships where the police chief is politically active, and the applicant is a political opponent, or a neighbor the chief just dislikes for some reason.

I will raise the issue with Durante (assuming I actually get my license at some point!) -- but judging from my slight acquaintance with him, I think he's unlikely to change his mind based on the above reasoning -- in his mind these rights will be outweighed by his duty to investigate an applicant's background.

[ChamberedRound]

I will raise the issue with Durante (assuming I actually get my license at some point!) -- but judging from my slight acquaintance with him, I think he's unlikely to change his mind based on the above reasoning -- in his mind these rights will be outweighed by his duty to investigate an applicant's background.

All the more reason for citizens of your county to elect another Sheriff when his term is up. There isn't a single duty he's responsible for that trumps an individual's rights.

[shiloh]

All the more reason for citizens of your county to elect another Sheriff when his term is up. There isn't a single duty he's responsible for that trumps an individual's rights.

In a perfect world, maybe you're right. But we're not in a perfect world. The reality in Montgomery County is that Barack Obama won by a 60-40 margin (where registrations are now about 45 percent D, 40 percent R -- and that's a big change in a county that had been strongly Republican for decades). Democrats took five row offices in the 2007 election, and thanks to the deal cut by RINO Commissioner Jim Matthews, Democrat Joe Hoeffel, a fierce anti-gun hothead, is effectively the lead commissioner. John Durante may not be perfect, but I'd take him over someone taking marching orders from Hoeffel any day of the week. And that's what we're likely to get if Durante goes down in the next election. We should look for good candidates for future elections, but you have to pick your battles carefully, and this is one I would not want to lose.

[ChamberedRound]

In a perfect world, maybe you're right. But we're not in a perfect world. The reality in Montgomery County is that Barack Obama won by a 60-40 margin (where registrations are now about 45 percent D, 40 percent R -- and that's a big change in a county that had been strongly Republican for decades). Democrats took five row offices in the 2007 election, and thanks to the deal cut by RINO Commissioner Jim Matthews, Democrat Joe Hoeffel, a fierce anti-gun hothead, is effectively the lead commissioner. John Durante may not be perfect, but I'd take him over someone taking marching orders from Hoeffel any day of the week. And that's what we're likely to get if Durante goes down in the next election. We should look for good candidates for future elections, but you have to pick your battles carefully, and this is one I would not want to lose.

I agree that the world isn't perfect, but just because Democrats are taking over MontCo doesn't mean they shouldn't be equally held to the rule of law.

[emsjeep]

I agree that the world isn't perfect, but just because Democrats are taking over MontCo doesn't mean they shouldn't be equally held to the rule of law.

"I'm not above the law, I am the Law!"

[shiloh]

Finally got down to the courthouse today; got the license with no problem in about 15 minutes.

Sheriff Durante was not in, but I spoke to one of the deputies. He said the check card policy has been in place for as long as he can remember. Few people have even questioned it, and no one has challenged it in court (people have challenged license denials in court, but not on the basis of having to get the check card filled out by the local PD, he said). I asked him why Montco has this requirement while other counties do not, and he said he doesn't know, but was surprised that more counties don't require it. 'We're required by law to perform a background investigation of all applicants, and this is just part of the background investigation," he said. He said if I wanted discuss it in any detail I'd have to take it up with Durante or the county solicitor. I'll follow up with a letter to Durante and the solicitor to get more info. Glad I got the license, anyway, and it was a nice morning to be in Norristown.