Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 1 of 21 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 201
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    in a house, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    238
    Rep Power
    40

    Default Open carry is "illegal" basicly in PA the sheriff told me!

    So im told that it is legal for open carry in PA. So im told I cant lose my ltcf here in PA if i was seen open carrying. Guess what those who said that were dead wrong! I just called my county's sheriff's dept. who issues gun permits (ltcf) and i asked them:

    Me- "Hello officer, I just have a question. I'm told that in PA it is legal to open carry right?

    Officer- "I advise against it"

    Me- " i know you might advise against it, but that shouldent superceed the state law, my question is if i am seen open carrying, and am stopped and questioned I couldent have my LTCF revoked could I?"

    Officer- "Yes you would and i wouldent advise that you open carry"

    Me- "Ok but it is legal to open carry in this state, so your telling me its legal but its not really legal?"

    Officer- "Yes, walk into philadelphia open carrying and see what happens...you will get shot"

    Me- "Yes i understand, but it is legal is it not?"

    officer- "We dont decide what is legal thats up to your congressmen and local offices"

    Me- "Ok sir i guess you answered my questions, but its not making sense that a law can be ovetturned by a patrol officer"

    Officer- "Ok have a nice day"

    What is going on! They made it seem like they tell thier officers to stop open carriers and then they take away their carry license! Why do i feel as if im in the twilight zone? Why did this sheriff be truthful to me and told me they trample the state law? Anyone here in PA needs to read this and call for themselves...here is their information and phone number!!! call them and see for yourself what they tell you. (610) 278-3331 call this number and ask for the gun permit office. Then ask about open carry and what would happen if you were to legally open carry and post what they say here...it will match what i wrote..this is unbelieveable im glad i called first before i "legally" open carried...if there ever was BS...this reaks of it. I'm sorry to say they dont care about the state law and they make that very clear, they just dont want open carry here in PA...very un american. They say dont do it because it's dangerous, who are they to disreguard the state law? please if you don't believe me call for yourself here is the number. Im sad to say fellow statesmen, open carry is not realisticly legal...its sad they can do this...end rant.

    http://sheriff.montcopa.org/sheriff/site/default.asp
    Last edited by jkroner659; April 26th, 2007 at 06:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    in a house, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    238
    Rep Power
    40

    Default Re: Open carry is "illegal" basically in PA the sheriff told me!

    Tommorow im calling the DA and SA and gonna get to the meat and potatoes of this disagreement. If i had my LTCF revoked for open carry, i would take this all the way to make the state laws are black and white...way too much grey area. However i did not open carry because something told me to see for myself if what you guys told me was true. I am glad i called them ahead of time and asked if i would have my license revoked if i did open carry...they said yes! While open carry certainly isent the smartest thing to do...shouldent matter...In PA its "legal de facto" which means there is no law on the books that outlaws open carry, therefore making it legal. I need people to tell me why it is impossible for them to revoke a LTCF for open carrying. I dont want to be a test rat for this experiment, i like my ability to carry to much, im sorry fellas...i dont have the time or the money to fight this on my own...ill call the DA's office and report back what is said.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Private, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    4,952
    Rep Power
    1065880

    Default Re: Open carry is "illegal" basically in PA the sheriff told me!

    I posted this on the other thread you responded to also.

    regardless of what your Sheriff said, Open carry is one hundred percent legal in PA.
    Open carry is 100 percent legal in Philly, but ONLY of you have a LTCF...different rules in Philly, since its a city of the first class.

    your Sheriff is WRONG, and it behooves you NOT to tell other folks they are wrong based on what your Sheriffs office decided to falsely inform you.

    I've been flat out told by police that machineguns are illegal in PA...but they aren't, the LEO was ignorant of the law, just like the person answering the phone at your Sheriffs office.

    PA has a Uniform Firearms Act, and there is NO law in it prohibiting open carry, there is only laws prohibiting concealed carry without a LTCF, so no Police Dept or Sheriffs Department makes the laws, they only enforce those on the books.

    I also suggest you read this thread, if you havent already....it's clearly acknowledged that PA alows open carry.
    http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...lancaster.html
    "Oderint Dum Metuant" - BMFH

    "Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm"

    Note: any whingeing crazy that hits my PM inbox will be deleted without reply

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Grove, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
    658
    Rep Power
    1125

    Default Re: Open carry is "illegal" basically in PA the sheriff told me!

    He may advise against it, but it is legal and there is nothing to charge you with if you are not breaking any laws. As for the LTCF, I am not sure if he could take it for that, but I would think not as no laws or regulations were broken.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cherry Tree, Pennsylvania
    (Indiana County)
    Age
    76
    Posts
    5,488
    Rep Power
    21474859

    Default Re: Open carry is "illegal" basically in PA the sheriff told me!

    These are Pennsylvania Supreme Court rulings:

    Commonwealth v. Hawkins, 692 A.2d 1068, n.4 (“In all parts of Pennsylvania, persons who are licensed may carry concealed firearms. 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108. Except in Philadelphia, firearms may be carried openly without a license. See Ortiz v. Commonwealth, 545 Pa. 279, 283, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (1996) (only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed; in other parts of the Commonwealth, unconcealed firearms do not require a license)”).
    And if that's not enough:

    Ortiz v. Commonwealth, 545 Pa. 279; 681 A.2d 152 (1996) (agreeing with appellant’s citation of the fact that "...in Philadelphia County, the legislature requires that a person must be licensed to carry weapons openly and not concealed from sight, whereas in all other counties of Pennsylvania, weapons may be carried openly without a license ...”).
    If any law enforcement officer wants to hassle you for openly carrying your handgun, or just for allowing it to be seen while basically concealed carry, Commonwealth v. Hawkins has plenty to say on that. Briefly, it is not permissable absent any other inappropriate actions on the carrier's part. Any law enforcement officer insisting on creating a hazard where none exists (see "Hawkins") is inviting a lawsuit for him (personally), his department, and his municipality for Abuse of Office/Official Oppression:
    PENNSYLVANIA CONSOLIDATED STATUTES
    TITLE 18 – CRIMES AND OFFENSES
    CHAPTER 53 – ABUSE OF OFFICE

    § 5301. Official oppression.
    A person acting or purporting to act in an official capacity or taking advantage of such actual or purported capacity commits a misdemeanor of the second degree if, knowing that his conduct is illegal, he:
    1. subjects another to arrest, detention, search, seizure, mistreatment, dispossession, assessment, lien or other infringement of personal or property rights; or
    2. denies or impedes another in the exercise or enjoyment of any right, privilege, power or immunity.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hatboro, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Age
    55
    Posts
    393
    Rep Power
    106638

    Default Re: Open carry is "illegal" basically in PA the sheriff told me!

    Quote Originally Posted by jkroner659 View Post
    So im told that it is legal for open carry in PA. So im told I cant lose my ltcf here in PA if i was seen open carrying. Guess what those who said that were dead wrong! I just called my county's sheriff's dept. who issues gun permits (ltcf) and i asked them:

    http://sheriff.montcopa.org/sheriff/site/default.asp


    ONCE AGAIN!!!!! Never ask a LEO legal advice.

    I wonder why you would think everybody at PAFOA would give you bad info about OC?

    go here: www.opencarry.org

    and click on the open carry map for PA and check for yourself.


    One more thing, NEVER ask a LEO legal advice.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    51
    Posts
    20,061
    Rep Power
    21474874

    Default Re: Open carry is "illegal" basically in PA the sheriff told me!

    Just print out "Commonwealth v. Hawkins" and "Ortiz v. Commonwealth" and keep a copy of the juicy parts in your wallet.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Plymouth Meeting, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    152
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: Open carry is "illegal" basically in PA the sheriff told me!

    +1 on what Knight said. The very few times I've open carried before I got my CCW I did just that. Although I was confident in my carrying openly being legal, I felt it would be nice to be able to pull out if you were getting harassed by an LEO. I guess both fortunately and unfortunately I never had an opportunity to pull it out. I would love to see a harssing officer's reaction when the actual law is thrown in his face.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    somewhere, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Age
    50
    Posts
    6,911
    Rep Power
    2967467

    Default Re: Open carry is "illegal" basically in PA the sheriff told me!

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    Just print out "Commonwealth v. Hawkins" and "Ortiz v. Commonwealth" and keep a copy of the juicy parts in your wallet.
    You show that to an officer during a stop and he/she will laugh at you while they put the cuffs on. As most LEOs will tell you (I believe "Steve in PA" has mentioned this in the past), a police stop of any kind is not the time to mount a legal defense.

    The problem isn't that open carry is illegal; we ALL knows it's legal. The problem is that too many LEOs, despite knowing it's legal, don't agree with the law and decide to enforce their own personal views. In addition, many Sheriffs and municipal police Chiefs decide they don't want people open carrying in their county/town. So they devise an unwritten policy which is in direct contradiction to the law, and enforced by their officers, knowing full well that anyone who argues with the officer during a stop will then get charged with resisting arrest or the like. In addition, it then gives the arresting officer a reason to confiscate a firearm and potentially an LTC. They know most people don't want or can't afford the hassle of legally proving the police accosted them, and through such actions the policy becomes de facto law.

    The problem with our current system is that there's no way to prevent a wrongful arrest. If someone is unlucky, they are forced to go along with it and fight the system afterwards. And this usually results in a huge legal expense for the individual in question, as well as the possibility they NEVER get their record expunged, even if the state cannot prove guilt.

    Why does it seem no one is watching the watchers? Who enforces the police? Where's IA or the like who's supposed to make sure that LEOs are actually enforcing LAW, and not their own sandbox rules?
    Last edited by ChamberedRound; April 26th, 2007 at 09:37 AM.
    "Political Correctness is just tyranny with manners"
    -Charlton Heston

    "[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
    -James Madison, Federalist Papers, No. 46.

    "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy." [sic]
    -John Quincy Adams

    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Μολών λαβέ!
    -King Leonidas

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bucks Cty, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Age
    70
    Posts
    6,008
    Rep Power
    21474859

    Default Re: Open carry is "illegal" basically in PA the sheriff told me!

    If open carry is legal then why the concern about "printing" ?

Page 1 of 21 1234511 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. "The Value of 24 Hour Carry"
    By keystone in forum General
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: January 18th, 2016, 02:25 PM
  2. Tried and True "What do you carry?" thread
    By JohnUSCG in forum General
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: June 27th, 2014, 08:25 AM
  3. Replies: 89
    Last Post: July 9th, 2012, 08:50 AM
  4. the traditional "what's your carry" thread
    By starblazer in forum General
    Replies: 82
    Last Post: April 4th, 2010, 08:38 PM
  5. ABC’s "20/20" Seeking "Armed Citizen" Stories
    By NineseveN in forum General
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: April 8th, 2007, 07:09 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •