Game Officer harassment

[40twist]

Sorry to disagree here, but no, a position does not automatically get respect especially if they start out with attitude. Second line out of his mouth "especially that you're obviously not a resident of PA" so obviously he doesn't even known PA law because you don't need to be a resident to have a LTCF. I'm sorry but I don't care what badge you have on your shirt if you approach someone with that attitude you don't deserve any respect, period.

I agree with you. I will not nor ever have , respected someone strictly because of the career path they chose. It aint happenin , at least not from me

[JoeWilliams]

I may be wrong but that may have also gotten you a charge of harassment also.

Naw... that's simple investigation/observation. Not a judge around going to mess with that, so long as the cop doesn't get all whacko with it. Ya know... following them home, sitting outside LOL.

There does come a point where the cop would cross the line doing something like this, but it's so subjective that it would take a judge to figure it out, most times.

"Your honor, I observed Ms Doe in line at Burger King, with a firearm in evidence. I informed her that her weapon was showing, and asked if I could see her permit. She asked if she was being detained, and was informed no. She declined to produce her permit. Ms Doe seemed overly nervous, so I continued to observe her while we each got our food. I returned to my car, and observed that Ms Doe's vehicle had inoperative equipment in violation of State Nanny Code 12345. A traffice stop was initiated, and at that time I obtained Ms Doe's driver's licence and LTCF."

vs

"Your honor, I observed Ms Doe in line at Burger King, with a firearm in evidence. I informed her that her weapon was showing, and asked if I could see her permit. She asked if she was being detained, and was informed no. She declined to produce her permit. Ms Doe seemed overly nervous, so I continued to observe her while we each got our food. I returned to my car, and spent the next day and a half following Ms Doe's every move, until she finally came to a stop at a stop light 3 inches forward of the stop bar."

One'll fly, one won't... least I hope it won't LOL.

[King 5.45]

ya thanks nazi i dont use capitalization or real sentence structure either, this is the intarwebz get ovah it.

Oh, you're such a haxorish one, ain'tcha?

[OvadekP]

The Game Officer goes into BK for some flame broiled goodness, acts like an asshat and gets flame broiled for his troubles.

Wow!

[knighthawk06699]

The funny thing is he/they thought they had an easy target. lol. Guess they will learn next time before harassing citizens.

[King 5.45]

Come on, people. What do you get out of splitting hairs and playing amateur lawyer with cops? The RAS would clearly be the distinct outline of a firearm underneath a garment. The refusal of the individual to show identification, after "lawful demand" (lawful, according to law, and demand, a directed request requiring compliance), would be grounds for further action. Michele is lucky that she didn't wind up in custody, especially after pulling her top out to openly display the weapon, which was, as if to say, "I may have been unlawful a second ago, but now I'm not."

It really pisses me off when people say that carrying a gun is reason to believe someone is a criminal. It most certainly is NOT.

People on a site like this, who carry weapons, yet still believe that the act of carrying a gun is reason for someone to think we are criminals no only do not respect self reliance, the Constitution, or freedom, they have SERIOUS issues with self-identity.

What do you get from slapping down a cop who is violating your rights? The satisfaction of defending the Constitution instead of being a pussy who quivers at the thought of confronting authority.

That's a lot of baseless accusation, pal, and I really don't think you know me well enough to have come to any of these conclusions in a valid way.

I respect self-reliance, I respect the Constitution, I have no issues with self-identity, and I am most certainly not a fucking pussy, on line, or in your face.

No rights were violated so far as I saw in my interpretation of the interaction between Michele and the WCOs. You and a lot of others like you who insist on CC/OC as a statement against an increasingly overprotective government apparatus would be better off with a less confrontational manner, but anything less than immediate escalation on your part seems to lack sufficient testosterone.

Reread the exchange between Michele and the officers. A simple "Yep!" on her part would have gone a long way to avoiding escalation, whether or not she intuited sexism on their part. Instead, now, there are two pissed off game cops wandering around with a hard-on for the next person they run into in a similar circumstance.

[Michele]

His initial statement to me was ""hey, you have a license to carry that".

He didn't say "excuse me, your firearm is printing, and btw, do you have a license to carry that".

He NEVER asked to see my LTCF. His instance in questioning was did I have one. He NEVER once mentioned my firearm "showing".

My firearm was NOT showing, only printing.

He definitely took the wrong approach, by being a loud horses ass, therefore, creating a confrontation.

There are much more suttle ways to gain information.

[1861]

You need to be very careful with the PGC and the like, Rangers etc. Their powers are derived from the state and they have broad reach in their efforts to prevent the crimes that they are supposed to be preventing. Once you leave State property they still have authority if they believe you committed a crime while on State property...and they have been known to make up whatever suits them. Be aware that some roads go through State Parks. I have personally seen Rangers follow people miles off of State land just for the fact that they were driving through and did something they didn't like. The mentality among them is that, as long as they can reasonably prove that you were on State land at some point they can do anything they want, i.e. that your passing through or brief stop is not just RAS but PC for a search of your person, vehicle or residence. I've tried to correct the people I know personally, but I can attest to what some of these guys are taught. While you may come out on top, you may be in for a world of hurt. I have even heard rumors of PPD using them and their status to effect warrantless PC based residence searches on people who have merely been to State land on the premise of preventing poaching or the like.

Luckily in the 10 years I have lived in PA. I haven't found this to be true . Most I've met have acted as a professional .I'm sure there are some bad ones but I haven't ran into them . If I were treated as you suggest they do I would have a very good attorney .

[riverpirate]

LMAO!!!

first thing: you're awesome. you weren't being rude, you were giving his shit back to him. if it were me, i'd have been a lot less friendly, mostly because i've reached my tolerance threshold for assholes.

second thing, Gaming Commission officers/park rangers have NO authority to question ANYONE about ANYTHING unless it's on state gameland. people have this misconception (so did i, for awhile), that a badge automatically confers authority; it doesn't. a sheriff, a constable, a game warden, or a corrections officer do NOT have the right to stop and question people on the street. that is the job of local police departments, and even then, they need RAS. i proved that with my run in with two Lackawanna sheriff's deputies, who were convinced open carry was illegal.

my response: "if it were illegal, you'd arrest me."

bottom line: the Game dick/ass ranger guy had no right to question you, and had no power to do anything. fuck him sideways with a chainsaw, i say.

oh yeah, rep sent.

You are dead wrong on this. They have all the powers of police on or off state game lands . ask gib armstrongs son
http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/233935

[thetruepyromaniak]

He NEVER asked to see my LTCF. His instance in questioning was did I have one. He NEVER once mentioned my firearm "showing".

He definitely took the wrong approach, by being a loud horses ass, therefore, creating a confrontation.

There are much more suttle ways to gain information.

heres my $.02 . People need to quit skirting the law. Just obay it. By all means if your rights are truly being violated then by all means fight and fight hard. A simple yes I do would have ended the situation. no raised voices or confrontation. As to the "being a loud horses ass, therefore, creating a confrontation" I think that the way you acted is what created the confrontation. I thinks its bs that people go out of thier way to tell off a LEO for making a mistake (only talking about minor mistakes such as the above.) but when they get a call from thier fire station they run to the car turn on thier little blue light and drive at dangerious speeds, often disobaying multiple traffic laws just so they can go play hero. Those are the true "wanna be's". Its ok for them to break laws, possiable causing an accident or even death, but when leo does it. Shame on them. WTF !END RANT!